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Post by siuyiu on Jun 18, 2018 4:10:52 GMT
huh. then the translation i've been hearing is a canto version: 特朗普. i'd assumed the news media would adopt the mandarin version, like they have with so many other names.
i agree that the concept of yin-yang has become known in the english-speaking world, but without being given any context, not everyone would pick up on the fact that the "yin" in nine yin skeleton claw refers to the "yin" of the yin-yang concept. also, not all english speakers know about yin-yang, so she's making a huge assumption. and yeah, chinese translations to english do tend to be pretty heavy on explanations--not a bad thing, but it does sometimes complicate things. "show, don't tell" is basic storytelling 101.
anyway, one of the articles mentioned that volume 2 is being translated by someone else. does anyone know the credentials of this second translator? i know she's chinese, so i'm not worried about her ability to understand the text. i just worry that her english isn't up to par and we'll end up with a chinglish translation.
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Post by yenchin on Jun 18, 2018 5:21:15 GMT
According to wikipedia 特朗普 is used in every other Chinese society except Taiwan, which makes me very curious on the HK part. Is the pronunciation even correct using these characters in canto? On wikipedia I can see at least "Donald" still has Cantonese translations. According to this webpage booksfromtaiwan.tw/translators.php?id=6The translator's background seems to show some better experience. I assume.
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 18, 2018 5:37:10 GMT
Can't open the wiki page for some reason. The canto is close enough. I hear it as "duk long po".
That brief intro about the 2nd translator tells me diddly-squat about her abilities. Something more concrete will be needed to allay fears. I hope she's not too bogged down trying to keep the writing style consistent with the 1st translator, though, sadly, she's stuck with the names already established.
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Post by yenchin on Jun 18, 2018 5:59:06 GMT
Some characters on the link turned into smileys. I'll just copy the HK translations here:
當勞·特朗普 當奴·特朗普 唐納德·約翰·特朗普
And according to the footnote 當勞侵 當撈侵 當奴侵 is also used in HK/Macau, some independent media uses 杜林普
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Post by reinafu on Jun 18, 2018 8:31:44 GMT
The French transaltions also translate the names, but I've always thought that translating the Chinese names was totally nonsensic : first, because the meaning is absolutely strange for us non Chinese people, and second, because Chinese names are more melodious and the pinyin is far enough and doesn't block people to understand what they read !
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 18, 2018 22:46:36 GMT
Some characters on the link turned into smileys. I'll just copy the HK translations here: 當勞·特朗普 當奴·特朗普 唐納德·約翰·特朗普 And according to the footnote 當勞侵 當撈侵 當奴侵 is also used in HK/Macau, some independent media uses 杜林普 ok, this is how they are pronounced in canto: 當勞·特朗普- dong no, duk long po 當奴·特朗普- dong no, duk long po 唐納德·約翰·特朗普 - tong noi duk, yerk hon (for john), duk long po 當勞侵 - dong no tzum (i think it mighty appropriate to use 侵 as the transliteration because he really is violating all sorts of human rights and freedoms!) 當撈侵 - dong lo tzum 當奴侵 - dong no tzum
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 18, 2018 22:49:20 GMT
The French transaltions also translate the names, but I've always thought that translating the Chinese names was totally nonsensic : first, because the meaning is absolutely strange for us non Chinese people, and second, because Chinese names are more melodious and the pinyin is far enough and doesn't block people to understand what they read ! your input in most invaluable to this discussion! so you don't think non-chinese-speaking readers would be put off by pinyin names? good to know!
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Post by reinafu on Jun 19, 2018 8:00:39 GMT
The French transaltions also translate the names, but I've always thought that translating the Chinese names was totally nonsensic : first, because the meaning is absolutely strange for us non Chinese people, and second, because Chinese names are more melodious and the pinyin is far enough and doesn't block people to understand what they read ! your input in most invaluable to this discussion! so you don't think non-chinese-speaking readers would be put off by pinyin names? good to know! Of course it shouldn't block people to read the stories because the names are in the original language !! Do we change Zorro in " The fox " when we read the comic book or watch the series ? Are we going to call Dolores " douleurs " (in French ) or " Pains " in English because it's a non French or non English name ? I think that translating all ( the names as weel as the cities names or countries names, for instance) because it's a translation is absolutely ridiculous, and, as I alreaady said, I prefer to read the stories with the original language names than trying to remember the translated names : in the French translation of Chu Liu Xiang, we find " la grive aux sourcils peints " that is absolutely ridiculous, and I don't even know what is the original name of this character in the book ! I was enthousiast when I saw the title of the thread, but when I saw this discussion about the translated names (and I haven't had time to read the whole discussion...), I was so disappointed ! It reminds me of a misadventure that happened to me when I bought once a French release of a musical with Fred Astaire and also of Mary Poppins : even the songs were translated in French and had nothing to do with the original lyrics ! Such a disappointment !
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 19, 2018 22:57:39 GMT
It reminds me of a misadventure that happened to me when I bought once a French release of a musical with Fred Astaire and also of Mary Poppins : even the songs were translated in French and had nothing to do with the original lyrics ! Such a disappointment ! wow... that's very thorough! yeah, sometimes people underestimate others' abilities to accept unfamiliar things, like names and cultural identities.
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Post by yenchin on Jun 20, 2018 3:51:25 GMT
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Post by reinafu on Jun 20, 2018 12:38:34 GMT
It reminds me of a misadventure that happened to me when I bought once a French release of a musical with Fred Astaire and also of Mary Poppins : even the songs were translated in French and had nothing to do with the original lyrics ! Such a disappointment ! wow... that's very thorough! yeah, sometimes people underestimate others' abilities to accept unfamiliar things, like names and cultural identities. And I forgot to mention that of course, not only the songs had been translated in French, but also they were sung by French artists, so, all the magic of Fred Astaire or Julie Andrews had disappeareed, even if the french artists were also good ones, such as Mathé Altéry...
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Post by reinafu on Jun 20, 2018 13:03:22 GMT
Thanks for the link.
I'm currently reading the list of characters and it's so ridiculous to see names such as " Skyfury Guo", " Ironheart Yang", " Charity Bao " or " Mercy Mu " : either the two names are translated in English, either they both stay in Chinese ! What's the use to give an English first name with a Chinese last name ??!! Of course, I understand that "skyfury " or " Ironheart " or " Mercy " can refer to the characters' temper, but really, it doesn't sound good for me !
Mercy Mu can simply be called by her real name Mu Nianci (if I remember well what I read in the French translation...). And what's this name Lily Li for Guo Jing's mother ? I don't remember how she was called in the French translation, but " Lily Li " doesn't ring a bell for me, except reminding me of one of my favourite Shaws' actress !!!!!!!
This matter of translating the names apart, it's worth congratulating this writer for having taken the task to translate such a book and if she translates the whole 12 books, well, it will be a huge work for which we should be grateful...
I don't know if this English translation will be a complete one, but I think that for the moment, I'll stick with my French translation, even if the books aren't complete...And maybe that in the future, I'll know enough Chinese characters to be able to read it in Chinese... )
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 20, 2018 22:49:10 GMT
reinafu keep working at it--if non-chinese people have managed to learn sufficient enough chinese to read the classics like dreams of the red chamber, then you can definitely attain a sifficient level to read JY!
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jenxi
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by jenxi on Jun 29, 2018 7:16:55 GMT
Exactly! Names should be left as is, in pinyin form. A footnote to explain if need be but don't translate the names. Even names like Sweeper Monk should be left as is IMO. while it'd be ideal to have footnotes to explain names and even certain historical and literary references, it's usually not welcome in fiction. people feel it's too much like a history book or other work of non-fiction. they want to be able to just read a story without pausing to read the extra bits at the bottom. so, i can understand why the translator avoided this. I totally understand the issues with footnotes. We're talking about names though, not the terms. A good writer can weave the explanation of what the name means into the prose. Stick to pinyin names or translate all the names. The way it is, she butchered all the names except those she left as is.
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 30, 2018 4:58:41 GMT
while it'd be ideal to have footnotes to explain names and even certain historical and literary references, it's usually not welcome in fiction. people feel it's too much like a history book or other work of non-fiction. they want to be able to just read a story without pausing to read the extra bits at the bottom. so, i can understand why the translator avoided this. I totally understand the issues with footnotes. We're talking about names though, not the terms. A good writer can weave the explanation of what the name means into the prose. Stick to pinyin names or translate all the names. The way it is, she butchered all the names except those she left as is. i absolutely agree that she should have stuck to one variation of the names--whether pinyin or complete translation, rather than this mish-mash. as to your point about weaving the explanation of the name into the prose, while that's what authors would normally do, the translator would get flack for introducing non-source bits (i.e., "THAT" was not in the original!).
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