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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 17:56:44 GMT
Thanks a lot for all these posts, but really, it's too difficult for me !!
While looking at one of your videos form this guy Tomy, I found this one in Mandarin, and I'm very proud of me, becaue I almlost understood all what she saw saying when comparing the Cantones words to the Mandarin ones !! And I even recognized some Cantonese sentences I'm used to hear when watching old Cantonese movies !
no worries--i'd've been astounded if you could've followed the pure-canto videos! since you have a grasp of mandarin, i'm not surprised you were able to follow this video! i'm glad you recognized some of the canto sentences from having watched old canto movies! just take note that the person who created this video speaks HK-style canto and has some of the lazy sounds common in that area. she's better than most, but it's unavoidable that she's picked up some of the bad habits prevalent in the population. if i manage to find any english-based canto lessons that are decent, i'll share! there are plenty of people who are not native to guangdong who have lived in HK most of their lives, so as a result, they know how to speak canto. however, most of them speak it with their native accent. and i've heard too many of these trying to pass off expertise in canto--to the point of teaching people how to speak it and reading tang poems to inform on the differences between canto and mandarin. i can only roll my eyes and try and find a better source.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 18:03:59 GMT
Frankly, I'm super happy that it's Mandarin language that have been chosen, because if I had to watch all the series I'm fond of only in Cantonese language, it would be very difficult for me to understand what's going on in the plot. It's already difficult to understand the old Connie Chan, Shih Kien and so on movies in Cantonese, as well as the old RTV and ATV or TVB dramas that don't have any Mandarin language, so, if I can find them in Mandarin, it's just the level before the graal, for me, the graal being to find them with english subtitles !! ah, but you're speaking in retrospect, in a world where mandarin is the predominant language. if canto had been chosen to be the official language, then you would've learned canto from your teacher all those years ago, and therefore would not have as much difficulty understanding it as you do now! as for your other question about the smileys, that's very odd. i'm going to guess what you're usually doing when replying instead of quoting: you are clicking on the empty text box at the bottom of the page, which is the "quick reply" one, which will not give you the options of changing font sizes and colour, adding bold/underline, and doing links, posting images, and adding smileys. you need to click the "reply" button embedded in the blue panel at the top of the text box--that opens up a full reply text box with all the options. the quick reply is for you to do a text-only response, without the trimmings.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 18:18:05 GMT
here's a short video introducing basic fruits in english (text) and cantonese. this is guangzhou style cantonese--i know because HK-style canto does not say "grapes" that way (guangzhou says "poe toe" whereas HK says "tie zee").
and an english-based one that gives audio for the 6 modes in canto (too bad she didn't include the 3 variants!)
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Post by reinafu on Jul 28, 2018 19:22:05 GMT
Thanks a lot for all these posts, but really, it's too difficult for me !!
While looking at one of your videos form this guy Tomy, I found this one in Mandarin, and I'm very proud of me, becaue I almlost understood all what she saw saying when comparing the Cantones words to the Mandarin ones !! And I even recognized some Cantonese sentences I'm used to hear when watching old Cantonese movies !
no worries--i'd've been astounded if you could've followed the pure-canto videos! since you have a grasp of mandarin, i'm not surprised you were able to follow this video! i'm glad you recognized some of the canto sentences from having watched old canto movies! just take note that the person who created this video speaks HK-style canto and has some of the lazy sounds common in that area. she's better than most, but it's unavoidable that she's picked up some of the bad habits prevalent in the population. if i manage to find any english-based canto lessons that are decent, i'll share! there are plenty of people who are not native to guangdong who have lived in HK most of their lives, so as a result, they know how to speak canto. however, most of them speak it with their native accent. and i've heard too many of these trying to pass off expertise in canto--to the point of teaching people how to speak it and reading tang poems to inform on the differences between canto and mandarin. i can only roll my eyes and try and find a better source. I clicked on this woman's name on youtube and there are indeed English language lessons to learn Cantonese. I haven't had time to check, but since you say that she doesn't have the right accent, I guess that she will have the same in the English teaching clips...
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Post by reinafu on Jul 28, 2018 19:31:26 GMT
Frankly, I'm super happy that it's Mandarin language that have been chosen, because if I had to watch all the series I'm fond of only in Cantonese language, it would be very difficult for me to understand what's going on in the plot. It's already difficult to understand the old Connie Chan, Shih Kien and so on movies in Cantonese, as well as the old RTV and ATV or TVB dramas that don't have any Mandarin language, so, if I can find them in Mandarin, it's just the level before the graal, for me, the graal being to find them with english subtitles !! ah, but you're speaking in retrospect, in a world where mandarin is the predominant language. if canto had been chosen to be the official language, then you would've learned canto from your teacher all those years ago, and therefore would not have as much difficulty understanding it as you do now! as for your other question about the smileys, that's very odd. i'm going to guess what you're usually doing when replying instead of quoting: you are clicking on the empty text box at the bottom of the page, which is the "quick reply" one, which will not give you the options of changing font sizes and colour, adding bold/underline, and doing links, posting images, and adding smileys. you need to click the "reply" button embedded in the blue panel at the top of the text box--that opens up a full reply text box with all the options. the quick reply is for you to do a text-only response, without the trimmings. Which teacher ?? I don't remember if I explained how I came to learn Mandarin on this site. I was 16 years old at that time and it's because I was watching martial arts movies since 2 or 3 years that I began to want to learn this language.
The only teacher I've had was a French woman married to a Chinese and she stayed only 4 or 5 months in my college (actually, this was supposed to be a club after school where everybody was welcome to discover Mandarin (I remember that even my teacher of French language came to this club with her daughter), not a real course with hours such as in Mathematics, French, English and so on) and she disappeared without any explanation, which lead me to believe that her husband was a dissident and that they escaped from Mao's men, but of course, it's pure supposition, since we were in France and I doubt that mao's police would have come there just in order to chase a dissident...So, no more Mandarin.
But as I'm a little bit stubborn and perseverant, I bought some methods as years were passing and when I had a while, I tried to learn by myself, but of course, if I had to speak to a Chinese, I'm sure he would be lauhging at me because of the tones....
By the way, thanks for the explanation regarding the smileys !
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 19:36:57 GMT
i've had a listen of gab gab cantonese, the channel that reinafu found, and overall, her lessons are ok--again, please beware that she has some bad speaking habits, but she's ok, and her fluency in both mandarin and canto will be useful to more of you! please also be aware that some of her earliest videos are english-cantonese ones, but her english is very so-so, and therefore i cannot in good conscience recommend them. so, here are some videos i've vetted: this is not entirely accurate, but worth getting an initial taste--how to refer to family members: as for the other channel (the one that taught the basic fruit names), here are a few more vids that are ok:
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 20:05:02 GMT
more vids:
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 20:14:22 GMT
and finally (for the day):
the channel that i took these videos from has several hosts. your best bet is to look at Olivia's vids (i've posted the ones by her that i think are the most useful to start learning canto, but there are plenty more. i haven't watched them, btw. and being from HK, she also suffers the same bad habits though they are not as severe nor as obvious to most. and her english is good, so even with the slight bad habits of lazy sounds that you'll end up picking up from her, what she teaches and how she teaches is sound.).
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 20:22:51 GMT
ah, but you're speaking in retrospect, in a world where mandarin is the predominant language. if canto had been chosen to be the official language, then you would've learned canto from your teacher all those years ago, and therefore would not have as much difficulty understanding it as you do now! as for your other question about the smileys, that's very odd. i'm going to guess what you're usually doing when replying instead of quoting: you are clicking on the empty text box at the bottom of the page, which is the "quick reply" one, which will not give you the options of changing font sizes and colour, adding bold/underline, and doing links, posting images, and adding smileys. you need to click the "reply" button embedded in the blue panel at the top of the text box--that opens up a full reply text box with all the options. the quick reply is for you to do a text-only response, without the trimmings. Which teacher ?? I don't remember if I explained how I came to learn Mandarin on this site. I was 16 years old at that time and it's because I was watching martial arts movies since 2 or 3 years that I began to want to learn this language.
The only teacher I've had was a French woman married to a Chinese and she stayed only 4 or 5 months in my college (actually, this was supposed to be a club after school where everybody was welcome to discover Mandarin (I remember that even my teacher of French language came to this club with her daughter), not a real course with hours such as in Mathematics, French, English and so on) and she disappeared without any explanation, which lead me to believe that her husband was a dissident and that they escaped from Mao's men, but of course, it's pure supposition, since we were in France and I doubt that mao's police would have come there just in order to chase a dissident...So, no more Mandarin.
But as I'm a little bit stubborn and perseverant, I bought some methods as years were passing and when I had a while, I tried to learn by myself, but of course, if I had to speak to a Chinese, I'm sure he would be lauhging at me because of the tones....
By the way, thanks for the explanation regarding the smileys !
yes, the lady who first introduced you to mandarin--i know you didn't take formal lessons and are self-taught, which is amazing!
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 22:12:11 GMT
one more: these are cantonese tongue twisters (once they get up to speed, even these actresses don't quite manage to enunciate all the words properly)! the best i've ever heard was a radio host, who not only could enunciate every word precisely and quickly, but she could then read the whole thing backwards just as quickly and precisely! too bad recordings aren't available!
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 29, 2018 19:37:12 GMT
懶音 Mostly Commonly Mispronounced Cantonese Words
i'm mainly talking about the words that most Hong Kong Canto-speaking people mispronounce, though i'm quite sure, with the easy accessibility and exchange of info, there is bleeding going on into the Guangzhou and overseas Canto populations! because there is no standard dictionary for canto pronounciations (unlike the kangxi) and the fact that, depending on whether the editor is a true canto-speaker, dictionaries for canto-speakers aren't consistent (and sometimes incorrect) in their pronounciation codes.
NOTE: i'm not using the conventional transliteration spelling formats, just what i think is the closest to the actual way the word is heard
佢 "s/he or him/her" (canto colloquial) - this is supposed to be pronounced as "keui/koei", but it's generally pronounced as "heui"
滸 "riverbank, shore" (as in 水滸傳 The Water Margin) - this is supposed to be pronounced as "foo", like 虎 tiger or 斧 axe, but i've heard it pronounced from "許 heui", "壺 woo", to "烏 woo"
浣 "to wash, to rinse" (as in 浣花洗劍錄 Spirit of the Sword) - this is supposed to be pronounced as "foon", like 款 item (i.e., 款式 style), but it's generally pronounced as "woon"
"Ng" initial consonant sound - missing 1. 我 "I, me" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "ngo/ngaw", but it's generally pronounced as "o/aw" and therefore missing the initial consonant sound 2. 牛 "ox" - this is supposed to be pronounced "ngau", but it's generally pronounced as "au" 3. 啱 "correct" (canto colloquial) - this is supposed to be pronounced "ngaam", but it's generally pronounced "aam" (i've even heard "aan") 4. 牙 "tooth" - this is supposed to be pronounced "ngaa", but it's generally pronounced as "aa" 5. 外 "outside, external" - this is supposed to be pronounced "ngoi", but it's generally pronounced as "oi" 6. 銀 "silver" - this is supposed to be pronounced "ngun", but it's generally pronounced as "un" 7. 眼 "eye" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "ngaan", but it's generally pronounced as "aan" 8. 顏 "face" (as in 顏色 colour) - this is supposed to be pronounced as "ngaan", but it's generally pronounced as "aan" 9. 樂 "music" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "ngok", but it's generally pronounced as "ok" (note that in canto, the same word is pronounced differently when you mean "happiness"--it's pronounced "le" in mandarin, but in canto "lok" is "happiness", "ngok" is music)
NOTE: as you can see, this is the most common error!
"ng" ending sound changed to "n" 1. 朋 (as in 朋友 friend) - this is supposed to be pronounced "pung", but it's generally pronounced as "pun", and when you say "pun yau" for friend, you are calling him/her impoverished friend 貧友 2. 恒 "forever" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "hung", but it's generally pronounced as "hun" and makes it sound like you're saying 痕 "itchy" 3. 行 "walk" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "hung", but it's generally pronounced as "hun" and makes it sound like you're saying 痕 "itchy" 4. 肯 "agree; willing to" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "hung", but it's generally pronounced as "hun" and makes it sound like you're saying 狠 "ruthless" 5. 生 "live, birth" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "sung", but it's generally pronounced as "sun" (the poor hang seng bank--people tend to pronounced it as "hun sun", which sounds like itchy body) 6. 等 "wait" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "dung", but it's generally pronounced as "dun" (and i'm so done with these lazy sounds!)
"k" ending sound changed to "t" 1. 北 "north" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "buck", but it's generally pronounced as "but" (OMG, the number of times i've heard 北角 (North Point, HK) pronounced as "but gok", which ends up sounding like "senseless") 2. 仄 (as in the changing tones) - i mention this one, though it's not a common everyday term, because we've been talking about canto tonality in this thread; this should be pronounced as "zuuk", but it's generally pronounced as "zut", which in canto colloquial is another word meaning "to stuff something into/to plug" 3. 突 "suddenly" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "duuk", but it's generally pronounced as "duut" 4. 得 "can, able (in the Canto context); gain, obtain" - this is supposed to be pronounced "duuk", but it's generally pronounced as "duut" (different tone from #3, though)
"s" initial consonant sound changed to "sh" 1. 書 "book" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "su", but it's generally pronounced as "shu" 2. 輸 "lose" - canto colloquial; this is supposed to be pronounced as "su" (same tonality as "book"), but it's generally pronounced as "shu" 3. 舒 "unfold" (as in 舒服 "comfortable") - this is supposed to be pronounced as "su" (same tonality as "book"), but it's generally pronounced as "shu" 4. 雪 "snow" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "sute", but it's generally pronounced as "shute" (the "u" in the french mode like "lune" (moon), not the english) 5. 說 "speak" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "sute", but it's generally pronounced as "shute" (same tonality as "snow") NOTE: it's interesting that it seems that words with "u" vowel sounds are the ones that are generally misprounounced; those with "a", "e", "i" sounds tend not to
"n" initial consonant sound changed to "l" 1. 你 "you" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "nay", but it's generally pronounced as "lay" 2. 女 "girl, woman" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "neui", but it's generally pronounced as "leui" 3. 難 "difficult" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "naan", but it's generally pronounced as "laan" 4. 男 "male" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "naam", but it's generally pronounced as "laam" (which is how you say "blue", so if you mispronounce 男人, you're saying "blue person") 5. 南 "south" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "naam", but it's generally pronounced as "laam" (so Nanjing (southern capital) becomes "blue capital") 5. 能 "can, able" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "nung", but it's generally pronounced as "lung" (i've even heard "lun", which is a double fault!) 6. 扭 "twist" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "nau", but it's generally pronounced as "lau"
i most likely will be adding to this list as i come across them in vids teaching canto (*rolleyes*) or just recall how singers mispronounced lyrics in wuxia themesongs.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 31, 2018 0:40:17 GMT
4. 凸 "protrude" - this is supposed to be pronounced as "duuk", but it's generally pronounced as "duut" huh. the correctional video that helped point out some of these to viewers contains an error! this word is actually supposed to be pronounced as "duut" and not "duuk", so i'm removing from the list! i should double-check all of these with my mom!
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 31, 2018 1:38:31 GMT
OMG, i'm crying! this has got to be one of the best parodies of the song ever--def the ugliest 鳳姐 ever! but the point is: there's a lot of canto colloquial to be learned through this set of lyrics:
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Post by siuyiu on Aug 4, 2018 6:21:50 GMT
thanks to yenchin for posting this video in another thread to talk about the meaning of 擺烏龍 (to make a mistake), i found another interesting source for learning canto-speak! here are some other interesting vids from the same user! explanation of 爆棚 = over capacity (of a restaurant, theatre, etc) explanation of 甩底 = to ditch someone (the most common usage of the term) etc the host has a lot of interesting vids, but because he tends to be a bit heavy on the etymology and less on the practical usage of a lot of terms, i haven't included them here.
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Post by siuyiu on Aug 4, 2018 19:26:25 GMT
one more: these are cantonese tongue twisters (once they get up to speed, even these actresses don't quite manage to enunciate all the words properly)! the best i've ever heard was a radio host, who not only could enunciate every word precisely and quickly, but she could then read the whole thing backwards just as quickly and precisely! too bad recordings aren't available! as a follow-up to this, here are some of the trickiest canto tongue twisters 急口令--i have trouble in my head getting the words straight! complete fail if i even attempt to verbalize! i'll provide translations and pronounciations (non-conventional, i.e., my own idea of what the closest transliteration should be)--sorry, i haven't figured out tonal coding yet, so will avoid to minimize errors. 1. 入實驗室撳緊急掣。press the emergency button when entering the research lab. -- yup sut yeem sut gum gun gup zuui -- the twister focusses on the ability to enunciate between the various short "u" ending sounds. 2. 街市買魚腸,見到姨丈,放低魚腸,問候姨丈,執翻魚腸,拜拜姨丈。bought fish guts at the market, bumped into uncle (by marriage), put down fish guts, asked after uncle's health, pick up fish guts, farewell uncle. -- guy see my yu cherng, geen doe yee jerng, fong duui yu cherng, mun how yee jerng, zup faan yu cherng, bye bye yee jerng. -- the twister focusses on the ability to distinguish between the pronounciation of "yu cherng" (fish guts) and "yee jerng" (uncle); it's so easy to intermix the words so they become "yu jerng" and "yee cherng" (the video has a much more complicated version of this) 3. 掘金掘桔掘金桔,掘雞掘骨掘根骨,掘完根骨掘金桔,掘完雞骨掘龜骨。digging gold, digging tangerines, digging kumquats; digging chicken, digging bones, digging wrist bones, finish digging for wrist bones and (proceeding to) dig for kumquats, finish digging chicken bones and (proceeding to) dig for turtle bones. -- gwut gum gwut gut gwut gum gut, gwut guui gwut gwut gwut gun gwut, gwut yune gun gwut gwut gum gut, gwut yune guui gwut gwut gwuui gwut -- this is the hardest version i found of this twister. it has two sets of words that you need to be able to enunciate properly: "gum gut" (kumquat) vs "gun gwut" (wrist bones), "guui gwut" (chicken bones) vs "gwuui gwut" (turtle bones). the sentence itself makes no sense; it's purely a tongue twister. 4. 三文一斤雞,三文一斤龜。街頭買斤雞,街尾買斤龜。你話係雞貴,我話係龜貴。究竟龜貴過雞定係雞貴過龜? three dollars per pound of chicken, three dollars per pound of turtle; bought the chicken at one end of the street, bought the turtle at the other end; you say the chicken is more expensive, i say the turtle is more expensive; so which is more expensive, the chicken or the turtle? -- saam mun yut gun guui, saam mun yut gun gwuui, guy tao my gun guui, guy may my gun gwuui, nay wah high guui gwuui, ngaw wah high gwuui gwui, guuw ging gwuui gwuui gaw guui ding high guui gwuui gaw gwuui
-- this is also the hardest version i found of this twister. it's a battle to pronounce "guui" (chicken) and "gwuui" (turtle) properly without mixing the two up! and to a lesser extent, its the tonality of "turtle" and "expensive" that adds to the difficulty. 5. 床腳撞牆角,牆角撞床腳, 你話床腳撞牆角定牆角撞床腳。foot of the bed hits the corner of the wall, the corner of the wall hits the foot of the bed; what do you think: did the bed hit the wall or did the wall hit the bed? -- chong gerk zong cherng gok, cherng gok zong chong gerk, nay wah chong gerk zong cherng gok ding cherng gok zong chong gerk -- this is a twister to distinguish between "chong gerk" (foot of the bed) and "cherng gok" (corner). again, it's easy to intermix the sounds to become "cherng gerk" and "chong gok"! 6. 雞龜骨滾羹。chicken and turtle bones to boil thick soup -- guui gwuui gwut gwun gung -- another chicken vs turtle battle, complicated by needing to enunciate different "u" ending sounds and distinguish between the "gw" and "g" consonant sounds. there are plenty of others, of course, but if you manage to say the above perfectly, you're off to a good start!
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