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Post by Admin on Sept 29, 2019 3:33:38 GMT
kyc : how's Hamaya's real personality in the novel anyway? I watched both the 2006 mainland version and Singapore version, and I kinda like Ada Choy's Hamaya, since I thought that Hamaya was supposed to be serious and never smiles, a bit cruel Argh... too bad there's no romance between Lv Siniang and Yongzheng. Actually the romance between LSN and YZ just like in The Dynasty is really pretty fun to watch/read, since YZ still had his cruel side, but also romantic side, while LSN still had her patriotic side that she had the heart to kill YZ. Agree with YYC's Singapore version is better than mainland version.
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Post by kyc on Sept 29, 2019 15:36:38 GMT
kyc : how's Hamaya's real personality in the novel anyway? I watched both the 2006 mainland version and Singapore version, and I kinda like Ada Choy's Hamaya, since I thought that Hamaya was supposed to be serious and never smiles, a bit cruel Argh... too bad there's no romance between Lv Siniang and Yongzheng. Actually the romance between LSN and YZ just like in The Dynasty is really pretty fun to watch/read, since YZ still had his cruel side, but also romantic side, while LSN still had her patriotic side that she had the heart to kill YZ. Agree with YYC's Singapore version is better than mainland version. Hamaya in Saiwai and Seven Swords is quite proud and stubborn. I guess she has been influenced by Lian Nichang; she probably the latter's pared-down version. I've read over 10 novels by Liang Yusheng and not a single one of them features a good Emperor. Every Emperor from Ming to Qing dynasty has been wicked or fatuous. Jin Yong is probably fairer in his estimation of the Ming/Qing dynasties Emperors.
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Post by siuyiu on Sept 29, 2019 20:29:39 GMT
I've read over 10 novels by Liang Yusheng and not a single one of them features a good Emperor. Every Emperor from Ming to Qing dynasty has been wicked or fatuous. Jin Yong is probably fairer in his estimation of the Ming/Qing dynasties Emperors. it's very subtle, but LYS had pro-communist ideals, so yes, he would portray a tyrannical rule under an emperor as evil. also, historically, wuxia is set during tumultuous times where "local heroes/outlaws" are the ones to robin hood it for the populace against the corrupt regime.
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Post by kyc on Sept 30, 2019 5:38:11 GMT
it's very subtle, but LYS had pro-communist ideals, so yes, he would portray a tyrannical rule under an emperor as evil. also, historically, wuxia is set during tumultuous times where "local heroes/outlaws" are the ones to robin hood it for the populace against the corrupt regime. Was LYS pro-communist or pro-socialist? There's a subtle difference between the two. (George Orwell for example was a socialist but a staunch anti-Communist.) It would seem odd that he emigrated to Australia before the communist takeover... if he was pro-communist, why did he do that? I can sense that even Wang Dulu had left-wing inclinations... but it's hard to tell if they supported the Communist party or not. Googling, I also realized that LYS became a Christian and was baptized in his late years, like Ni Kuang. See chinachristiandaily.com/news/society/2018-11-05/testimonies-of-martial-arts-novelist-jin-yong-s-christian-friends--liang-yusheng-and-ni-kuang-_7761"During the Cultural Revolution, Liang complained to Jian about the cultural circles in Hong Kong that were divided into leftists and rightists. The latter told him to read Romans 7:18-24 and these verses planted a seed of faith inside him." Maybe Liang Yusheng was not so divided by sectarian politics?
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Post by siuyiu on Sept 30, 2019 23:24:56 GMT
it's very subtle, but LYS had pro-communist ideals, so yes, he would portray a tyrannical rule under an emperor as evil. also, historically, wuxia is set during tumultuous times where "local heroes/outlaws" are the ones to robin hood it for the populace against the corrupt regime. Was LYS pro-communist or pro-socialist? There's a subtle difference between the two. (George Orwell for example was a socialist but a staunch anti-Communist.) It would seem odd that he emigrated to Australia before the communist takeover... if he was pro-communist, why did he do that? I can sense that even Wang Dulu had left-wing inclinations... but it's hard to tell if they supported the Communist party or not. Googling, I also realized that LYS became a Christian and was baptized in his late years, like Ni Kuang. See chinachristiandaily.com/news/society/2018-11-05/testimonies-of-martial-arts-novelist-jin-yong-s-christian-friends--liang-yusheng-and-ni-kuang-_7761"During the Cultural Revolution, Liang complained to Jian about the cultural circles in Hong Kong that were divided into leftists and rightists. The latter told him to read Romans 7:18-24 and these verses planted a seed of faith inside him." Maybe Liang Yusheng was not so divided by sectarian politics? sorry, i was imprecise--pro-socialist.
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Post by galvatron prime on Oct 1, 2019 1:42:10 GMT
kyc : how's Hamaya's real personality in the novel anyway? I watched both the 2006 mainland version and Singapore version, and I kinda like Ada Choy's Hamaya, since I thought that Hamaya was supposed to be serious and never smiles, a bit cruel Argh... too bad there's no romance between Lv Siniang and Yongzheng. Actually the romance between LSN and YZ just like in The Dynasty is really pretty fun to watch/read, since YZ still had his cruel side, but also romantic side, while LSN still had her patriotic side that she had the heart to kill YZ. Agree with YYC's Singapore version is better than mainland version. Hamaya in Saiwai and Seven Swords is quite proud and stubborn. I guess she has been influenced by Lian Nichang; she probably the latter's pared-down version. I've read over 10 novels by Liang Yusheng and not a single one of them features a good Emperor. Every Emperor from Ming to Qing dynasty has been wicked or fatuous. Jin Yong is probably fairer in his estimation of the Ming/Qing dynasties Emperors. Admin siuyiu anyone Is Hamaya a Japanese in the novel ? Why she have Japanese name Hamaya? Hamaya not Han ,am I right?
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Post by kyc on Oct 1, 2019 5:49:10 GMT
Is Hamaya a Japanese in the novel ? Why she have Japanese name Hamaya? Hamaya not Han ,am I right? galvatron prime, Hamaya is from a Central Asian ethnic minority tribe. She's neither Han Chinese nor Japanese.
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Post by yenchin on Oct 1, 2019 9:37:31 GMT
For me the whole Tang Xiao-Lan/Feng Ying "romance" was the hardest to swallow in The Three Heroines. It seemed to come out of nowhere and IIRC plotwise Tang himself was kind of uneasy with it as he felt like a father figure to Feng Ying. The romance plot between Feng Lin and Li Yeh as well as Tang's crush on Lu Siniang was far more interesting.
My second issue of the novel is the whole Mt. Mang School/Eight Heroes of Jiangnan storyline(s!) which mainly consists of them dealing with the traitor, Monk Liaoyin, making the novel even more crowded. The way which LYS describes the One-Armed Nun as having no heart in teaching most of her disciples seems kind of a weak excuse to balance the characters, however, on the contrary, this turns Liaoyin into an extremely overpowered juggernaught and quite frustrating to see Gan Feng-Chi and the other heroes (besides Lu Siniang, of course) struggle with Liaoyin with predictable outcomes. This also makes the Mt. Mang School kind of like a laughable insignificant group in further stories such as The Jade Bow Connection.
My pet theory is LYS probably wanted to write a novel focused on the Eight Heroes, but then noticed he was basically doing Seven Swords again, and rewrote them to the final product.
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Post by kyc on Oct 1, 2019 12:23:04 GMT
For me the whole Tang Xiao-Lan/Feng Ying "romance" was the hardest to swallow in The Three Heroines. It seemed to come out of nowhere and IIRC plotwise Tang himself was kind of uneasy with it as he felt like a father figure to Feng Ying. The romance plot between Feng Lin and Li Yeh as well as Tang's crush on Lu Siniang was far more interesting. My second issue of the novel is the whole Mt. Mang School/Eight Heroes of Jiangnan storyline(s!) which mainly consists of them dealing with the traitor, Monk Liaoyin, making the novel even more crowded. The way which LYS describes the One-Armed Nun as having no heart in teaching most of her disciples seems kind of a weak excuse to balance the characters, however, on the contrary, this turns Liaoyin into an extremely overpowered juggernaught and quite frustrating to see Gan Feng-Chi and the other heroes (besides Lu Siniang, of course) struggle with Liaoyin with predictable outcomes. This also makes the Mt. Mang School kind of like a laughable insignificant group in further stories such as The Jade Bow Connection. My pet theory is LYS probably wanted to write a novel focused on the Eight Heroes, but then noticed he was basically doing Seven Swords again, and rewrote them to the final product. Wow, yenchin , you still can remember so much of the novel. One week away, and I'm already forgetting parts of the novel. I'm okay with the Tang Xiaolan-Feng Ying romance even though he is 15 years her senior. I guess LYS just wanted to branch out into a different kind of romance. But all the romances in the book are underdeveloped. LYS being the democratic guy he is, will pair off couples, but some of romances simply aren't memorable. Who cares, for example, about Yu Niang (魚娘) and her boyfriend? I agree that the crush with Lv Siniang was interesting but it also didn't really develop like Yu Yutong with Luo Bing in The Book and the Sword. The whole Mt. Mang School/Eight Heroes of Jiangnan, I agree, is one big mess. Imagine Jin Yong making the Seven Freaks of Jiangnan the protagonists of half of Condor Heroes and you can imagine how chaotic the mess is. Only Lv Siniang and Gan Fengchi are good fighters. The rest just make up the number. Liaoyin is a somewhat stock antagonist. After he dies, LYS just invents another (similar) character to take over. The eight are indeed a "laughable insignificant group" that ruins much of the novel. I hope later novels are not so "overpopulated."
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Post by Admin on Oct 8, 2019 2:25:35 GMT
Imagine Jin Yong making the Seven Freaks of Jiangnan the protagonists of half of Condor Heroes and you can imagine how chaotic the mess is. Only Lv Siniang and Gan Fengchi are good fighters. The rest just make up the number. Liaoyin is a somewhat stock antagonist. After he dies, LYS just invents another (similar) character to take over. The eight are indeed a "laughable insignificant group" that ruins much of the novel. I hope later novels are not so "overpopulated." I'm totally agree with you and your analogy! The analogy of making Seven Freaks of Jiangnan the protagonist is really funny I read the Glacier Maiden, and based on the title, I would expect to see more of Glacier Maiden with her love interest Tang Jingtian, but there's too much Jin Shiyi (who later became the main protagonist in 云海玉弓缘 )in the novel instead of giving more portion to Tang Jingtian
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Post by atumiwa on Oct 8, 2019 4:01:34 GMT
The way which LYS describes the One-Armed Nun as having no heart in teaching most of her disciples seems kind of a weak excuse to balance the characters, however, on the contrary, this turns Liaoyin into an extremely overpowered juggernaught and quite frustrating to see Gan Feng-Chi and the other heroes (besides Lu Siniang, of course) struggle with Liaoyin with predictable outcomes. This also makes the Mt. Mang School kind of like a laughable insignificant group in further stories such as The Jade Bow Connection. one-armed nun = princess changping?
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Post by kyc on Oct 8, 2019 5:00:12 GMT
I'm totally agree with you and your analogy! The analogy of making Seven Freaks of Jiangnan the protagonist is really funny I read the Glacier Maiden, and based on the title, I would expect to see more of Glacier Maiden with her love interest Tang Jingtian, but there's too much Jin Shiyi (who later became the main protagonist in 云海玉弓缘 )in the novel instead of giving more portion to Tang Jingtian Glacier Maiden is related to another book I read, the novella 冰魄寒光劍 (“The Ice Soul Sword of Frosty Light"). From what I know, the latter is a prequel of Glacier Maiden. It's about the courtship of Han Chinese swordsman Gui Huasheng (桂華生) for a beautiful Tibetan princess. LYS is too democratic. He tries to make multiple characters his protagonist. Unfortunately, Jin Yong had already tried this formula in The Book and the Sword and later abandoned it... I shudder to think how many characters/protagonists there will be in his 4-volume works.
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Post by kyc on Oct 8, 2019 5:03:30 GMT
The way which LYS describes the One-Armed Nun as having no heart in teaching most of her disciples seems kind of a weak excuse to balance the characters, however, on the contrary, this turns Liaoyin into an extremely overpowered juggernaught and quite frustrating to see Gan Feng-Chi and the other heroes (besides Lu Siniang, of course) struggle with Liaoyin with predictable outcomes. This also makes the Mt. Mang School kind of like a laughable insignificant group in further stories such as The Jade Bow Connection. one-armed nun = princess changping? Yes. Her arm had been slashed away by Emperor Chongzhen before he committed suicide.
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Post by Admin on Oct 9, 2019 4:20:09 GMT
Glacier Maiden is related to 云海玉弓缘, and also Tianshan series. Glacier Maiden later on married to Tang Xiaolan's son, Tang Jingtian. Also in the story, Tang Xiaolan and his wife and her twin sister appeared in the novel.
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Post by kyc on May 4, 2020 14:30:23 GMT
I've just finished The Legend of the Heavenly Glacier Maiden (《冰川天女傳》). It is the sequel to Three Heroines of the Martial Arts World (《江湖三女俠》) and The Ice Soul Sword of Frosty Shimmer (《冰魄寒光劍》). The protagonists are Tang Jingtian, the Glacier Maiden, Chen Tianyu and Jin Shiyi.
The novel is something of a mixed bag. Some parts are really well written, like the glacier mountain descriptions and the depictions of Mount Everest, the Tibetan palace etc. Those parts are worthy of Jin Yong. But the lesser parts resemble The Three Heroines in being disorganized. There are too many minor villains who pop out from nowhere, instead of a few well-developed baddies. As expected, the heroes and heroines of the last generation make cameos here, including Tang Xiaolan, Mao Chuansheng, Feng Ying, Feng Lin, and Lv Siniang.
Of the three male protagonists, Tang Jingtian is probably the main one, yet I find his relationship with the Glacier Maiden predictable and not as memorable as the Lian Nichang-Zhuo Yihang's love affair. Tang Jingtian is a good fighter, handsome and dashing, but somehow lacks personality. The Glacier Maiden's entrance is very memorable, but ultimately, she does not compare with Lian Nichang. The love affair between Chen Tianyu with the Tibetan girl is more tragic, but neither is this relationship developed. Overall, there are too many subplots and few developments.
Jin Shiyi is the most unorthodox of the three guys and he has an entire novel in which he is the lead, Yunhai Yugong Yuan (雲海玉弓緣, Romance of the Jade Bow Amidst Clouds and Seas). The present novel outlines his parentage and his master. Unfortunately, he actually unbalances the novel by stealing limelight off Tang Jingtian, but never mind.
I do find some characters irritating, especially Feng Lin who is now in her 40s, playing pranks on everyone with her daughter, but your reaction may differ.
So, all in all, I find this sometimes very good, sometimes quite mediocre. It is an uneven novel which I also find Seven Swords and Three Heroines to be. Reading it alongside Jin Yong's Condor Heroes puts LYS in unfavorable light. LYS's imagination is more ad-hoc improvisation, and it is clear that this novel, unlike JY's, is not thoroughly planned at the start. Still, I give this novel a 4.0/5.
(P. S. Please pardon the title translations. They sound odd but I'm including them for the sake of those who don't read Chinese.)
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