|
Post by Admin on Jul 17, 2014 12:33:17 GMT
Hi, anyone can give a brief explanation between : bang, pai, hui, men, etc. Why Shaolin is called 少林派,and 少林邦, while in English translation it's called as CLAN
|
|
|
Post by Lone Crane on Jul 17, 2014 13:27:05 GMT
It's 幫, 邦 is a city-state.
幫 (bang) is usually translated in the case of wuxia as brotherhood or gang. It's a loose grouping of people under one organization, but not necessarily all in the same place. The Beggar's Sect, for example has people all over the place. Bang also is a measure word for groups of people, so you can see how it could be used as word for group. 匪幫 (feibang) means bandit gang.
派 (pai) is a school or sect, group, faction. Can be used for a religion or even a school of thought. Wudang is a pai, which is usually translated as sect. A sect is united by common interests of beliefs, sets of rules, etc. Therefore you can also use clan.
會 (hui) means society, association, union, a grouping of people who have come together because they have or share common characteristics or goals or beliefs. You may have noticed there is a lot of overlap in these definitions.
門 (men) is short fot 門派 (menpai) which means school or sect. Basically interchangeable with 派, yet 門 can also refer to a family-run school, though it can be used for religious sects as well.
教(jiao) in the context of organizations refers to some religious sect. In wuxia this is usually translated as cult, especially if the organization is an unorthodox sect 邪派 (xiepai). Sun Moon Cult, for example. In English, cult nowadays has the connotation of a religious group that is extreme in its beliefs or practices.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jul 17, 2014 14:33:04 GMT
Lone Crane, thanks for the information It's really a priceless information
|
|
|
Post by caiyi on Jul 17, 2014 14:48:13 GMT
Adding to this info. From an old post in wuxiasociety. Original source of info is Laviathan from Spcnet.
|
|
|
Post by caiyi on Jul 17, 2014 14:53:10 GMT
What makes Ming Jiao and unorthodox sect while Cheun Zhen an orthodox sect? Is it because Ming Jiao is foreign?
|
|
|
Post by caiyi on Jul 17, 2014 14:59:24 GMT
Question from PJ:
Very interesting indeed! I can think of a couple of other types of organizations that are sometimes mentioned in wuxia:
-门, can't think of any example off the top of my head, other than 龙虎门
-会, as in the Red Flower Society. What's the difference between this and a 帮 ?
-世家, like a big family organization. Probably Nangong Shijia and Ximen Shijia are 2 of the most popular.
Question: I think 5 Poison Jiao should be a 'pai' not a 'jiao'. They are know for the skill of poisoning, right? Not their religion. The organisation passed on a skill not a religion.
|
|
|
Post by Lone Crane on Jul 17, 2014 15:02:51 GMT
I think the Ming Cult is "unorthodox" simply because it is different from the other schools in the wulin, and its practices are more secretive, which leads to speculation and rumors that the cult has some evil intentions or something, even though that is not the case. Orthodox schools are called 正派, unorthodox are called 邪派. 邪 can mean evil, but it can also just mean strange or odd, or heretical. Unorthodox simply means something that breaks from tradition or convention, so any school that is seen as different from the other schools would be "unorthodox".
|
|
|
Post by chefying on Jul 17, 2014 16:42:48 GMT
My personal feeling is that Ming Cult was deemed unorthodox because they came from Persia. Because people did not understand them, they were labelled unorthodox.
I know that Shaolin is based on Buddhism which came from India. However, since the Tang Dynasty, at various times Buddhism had been favoured by the rulers and had it forced on the people. After a while, Buddhism was accepted in China. Ming was not forced on anybody, and did not have as long a history as Buddhism. Hence Ming was deemed unorthodox.
|
|