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Post by kyc on Jul 9, 2022 3:27:04 GMT
Here are two interesting wuxia theses that touch on translation philosophies and provide a sample translation of a Gu Long novel each. They are Masters of Philosophy theses submitted to the National Taiwan Normal University. linklink 2You can download them if you have a Google or Facebook account. They are written in English. Both writers are native speakers of English (one specified he was from the U.S.) who went to Taiwan to study Chinese and translation. The first thesis I find especially interesting as it contains a lot of biographical information on Gu Long and many responses by critics and translators on translating wuxia fiction. As for the translations, they are at the end of the theses, not a complete book. One of them translated Book 1 of The Legendary Siblings. You can decide for yourself how much you like them.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 9, 2022 3:40:08 GMT
the first link shows an error. and i'm not able to download.
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Post by kyc on Jul 9, 2022 3:44:01 GMT
the first link shows an error. and i'm not able to download. Should be corrected now. You try again. If not, you can PM me and I will send you the pdf file.
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Post by texture on Jul 9, 2022 5:18:36 GMT
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Post by kyc on Jul 9, 2022 7:08:41 GMT
If anyone is having any trouble downloading the files, just PM me.
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Post by kyc on Jul 9, 2022 7:55:40 GMT
I agree with a lot of things Ryan Kueck said in the thesis paper. It's pretty sad hearing the pessimistic assessment of John Minford about wuxia fiction's reception in the English-speaking world. He called it a "bastard child": "what hope can there be for Martial Arts fiction in English translation? What hope for the bastard child, in this strange world into which we are proposing to drag it? Who wants it anyway?"
I actually think the English-speaking world is a potential market. Almost everyone on Amazon gave the wuxia translations good reviews.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 10, 2022 1:34:24 GMT
thanks again for these two interesting essays! i don't have the time to read the actual translations--and i've always had a lot of difficulty reading translations for names (whether transliterations or translations)--i get confused about who's who.
good overview of the development of wuxia fiction. of course the 3 greats (and esp JY & GL) were central to both papers. sadly, as with all thesis papers, they are verbose and drag on unnecessarily. while it's necessary to be thorough, academic papers, just like the poor translations they are criticizing, lack the storytelling touch to make it an interesting read.
but the central argument that there are so many pitfalls to overcome to properly represent one culture to another with different terminology, ideology, upbringing, prejudices, etc. is definitely important and valid. it was one of the major reasons among several why my attempt at translating LYS' PZXYL was limited to doing just chapter summaries. there's still too much i don't know to be able to do the source justice. but that's another topic altogether.
both papers predate the translation of JY's LOCH, of course. it'd be interesting to see what these two students make of the latest attempt to introduce wuxia to the english-speaking world.
i do know that the big bookstore chain that carries the translation actually had a "genres you've never heard of but should try" link on their website to get people to explore new things for their summer reading, and "wuxia novel" was listed, with the translated LOCH being the book recommended.
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Post by kyc on Jul 10, 2022 3:21:31 GMT
I am more partial to academic papers as I see a point for them (i.e. it's never easy critiquing someone else's favorite novelist unless you do it in a fair and unbiased manner, which is what academia attempts to do). I can see your point as many academic papers are simply dry and lack the human touch, dissecting the subject like a literary surgeon. I tend to find the first thesis more interesting, Thesis 2 is to me largely a good summary of the development trends in wuxia fiction, whereas the first paper talks more about the critical reactions to official translations, also providing interesting biographical background on Gu Long. Both papers talk about the pitfalls of wuxia translations, which many people may not be even aware of. (That said, I prefer the translation in the second paper as I think it sounds more natural.)
Concerning the problem of translating/transliterating characters' names--this is an unavoidable issue when translating wuxia fiction, and has to be dealt with satisfactorily. John Minford and the official translators of LOCH went with a partial translation solution--not ideal as some names are translated, others are transliterated, confusing everyone (and infuriating wuxia purists). The problem is that people in the West may think a Chinese character has only one meaning; it often has shades of meaning that are lost if you simply translate. But if you translate names that are really sobriquets--fair enough.
I will give a good example: Yang Guo's given name 楊過. In ROCH, Guo Jing gives the given name 過 [error(s)/blunder] in hope that the boy will rectify the grave errors of his father. No sane translators will actually translate this name: imagine calling your hero Error or Blunder Yang! But there is an extra shade of meaning that will be completely lost once the name is translated, giving Western readers a false sense of security. 過 can also mean "exceptional", as in 過人之處. So this movement in Yang Guo's life, from error --> exceptional, is lost when the name is simply translated. Some may not be even aware of it. A footnote or explanatory glossary can be more useful than a name translation.
There are other interesting things these theses touch on. Many points are well taken. The translator has to be sensitive to the cultural nuances of certain terms, Say lulin 綠林, which Olivia Mok translates (very literally) as Greenwood. This is actually a euphemistic term for outlaws that form brigands--but without a footnote or the right translation, a reader without Chinese is left scratching his or her head.
The way I see it, there will always be enough readers of genre fiction (sci-fi, horror, fantasy, detective), and wuxia fiction is genre fiction. It's just that some people don't see wuxia fiction as literature--I beg to differ. The ideal translator of wuxia fiction has to be intrepid and meticulous: it is like guiding a traveler on a voyage to the New World; you can throw in the towel and sail back to the Old World, but there is just so much to be discovered. And to me, wuxia fiction is not just about Jin Yong or even Jin Yong + Gu Long. There are so many good or great practitioners of the genre. I'm in the process of reading Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and I am very affected by it, so much so that I am tempted to do a translation. It's a rich reading experience. Sadly, there will be translators who get daunted just by glancing at Liang Yusheng's opening poem to his novel. But a good translator has to be brave, very brave! And sometimes creative as well without compromising the author.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 10, 2022 4:02:01 GMT
kyc oh, i'm not disputing the value of academic papers, just the format. gregorian chant went out of fashion a long time ago, keep up with the times! and "it's always been done this way" is not a legitimate reason for continued stupidity. as for translation difficulties, i agree with you: people will just adapt, provided you give them the framework. anime and manga were foreign to the english-speaking world, but they accepted them--granted, both are more visual, less text, but nonetheless, those interested and willing to learn will pick up the terminology willingly. science-fiction is enjoyed by more than science students, and there are plenty of scientific terminology and theories that had to be learned; but readers did. so, the same can be applied to wuxia. and to clarify: i'm not saying i need the names to be translated--aiya, blunder guo!--i'm just saying that personally, i have difficulties keeping up with transliterated names and remembering who that character is when given the transliterated name later on without the reminders that it's the girl with the flower pendant on her sword or the guy with the beard. that's just a me thing.
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Post by kyc on Jul 10, 2022 4:09:11 GMT
kyc oh, i'm not disputing the value of academic papers, just the format. gregorian chant went out of fashion a long time ago, keep up with the times! and "it's always been done this way" is not a legitimate reason for continued stupidity. as for translation difficulties, i agree with you: people will just adapt, provided you give them the framework. anime and manga were foreign to the english-speaking world, but they accepted them--granted, both are more visual, less text, but nonetheless, those interested and willing to learn will pick up the terminology willingly. science-fiction is enjoyed by more than science students, and there are plenty of scientific terminology and theories that had to be learned; but readers did. so, the same can be applied to wuxia. and to clarify: i'm not saying i need the names to be translated--aiya, blunder guo!--i'm just saying that personally, i have difficulties keeping up with transliterated names and remembering who that character is when given the transliterated name later on without the reminders that it's the girl with the flower pendant on her sword or the guy with the beard. that's just a me thing. LOL, I know you don't mean all these, I'm just sometimes taking a point and clarifying what some people are misled into thinking, not necessarily you really. Obviously most are my personal opinions only, I'm just trying to explain them.
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Post by kyc on Jul 10, 2022 4:20:10 GMT
I made a blunder--it should be Blunder Yang and not Blunder Guo. Sorry for the error. I have already corrected the original post. 😅
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 10, 2022 4:38:25 GMT
blunder guo is guo da-xiaojie
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