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Post by Admin on Jan 6, 2023 7:53:35 GMT
Since it's the Winter Solstice, I'll post this: 江城子 龍陽觀冬至作 Tune Name: Riverside Town Written at the Long Yang Temple, on the Winter Solstice -尹志平 -Yin Zhiping (That's right, that Yin Zhiping, hence I chose this poem) (The translation is my feeble attempt to interpret all the Taoist wisdom involved in the text.) 六陰消盡一陽生,暗藏萌,雪花輕。九九嚴凝,河海結層冰。二氣周流無所住,陽數足,化龍升。 The Yins exhaust and the Yang grows, life secretly buds, and the snowflakes are light. The freezing cold begins, with layers of ice on the waters. Yin and Yang are in an eternal circle, when Yang is full, it transforms into a rising dragon. 歸根復命性靈明,過天庭,入無形。返復天機,升降月華清。奪得乾坤真造化,功行滿,赴蓬瀛。 Returning to one's roots and destiny clears the life and soul, passing the Heavens one becomes formless. The secrets of the Heavens is in the circle of come and go, the rise and fall clearly shown on the moon. Robbing the true nature of the Heavens and Earth, one will be accomplished, and head towards the lands of Peng Ying.
Some notes: The first phrase is based on the I-Ching where six horizontal lines are used to describe the changes of Yin and Yang. The Winter Solstice is day of full Yin, but it also signifies the growth of Yang. "九九": In Northern China, since it's freezing in Winter, people used to count the days to Spring in nines. And therefore after 9x9 = 81 days Spring is near. The second verse includes a lot of Taoist concepts and I assume if I really understand them I've become immortal The last phrase "蓬瀛" refers to 蓬萊 (Penglai) and 瀛洲 (Yingzhou), two mythological islands (or mountains) where deities dwell. yenchin mentioned him in the poem section, then I remember that Yin Zhiping is a real historical figure, one of a Quanzhen Sect taoist priest. But then, JY made him Xiao Longnv rapist So actually, what kind of person YZP in real life that he got this kind of defamation? Also, was he really one of Qiu Chuji's disciple?
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Post by kyc on Jan 6, 2023 8:27:42 GMT
If I'm not wrong, JY was forced to write him out in the 3rd edition. He was pressured by the Quanzhen Sect Taoists or Yin Zhiping's descendants. Since there was no such person as Xiaolongnv in real life, he obviously cannot be a rapist. JY did this before in the 2nd edition for Chen Jialuo's mother. She was a real historical figure; in The Book and the Sword serialization, she bore Chen Jialuo after an adulterous affair with Yu Wanting. The members of Haining Chen Clan complained, and JY was forced to remove the adulterous parts and make Qianlong Chen Jialuo's full brother. In the serialization, they were half-brothers.
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Post by yenchin on Jan 6, 2023 14:05:09 GMT
Based on his wiki entry: Yin Zhiping (1169 - 1251, aged 82) was quite a devoted Taoist, and started practicing when he was 13, and experienced various effects of meditation and practicing since he was young. He studied as Ma Yu's disciple but was forced to revert to secularism by his family. Later he became Liu Chushuan's and eventually Chiu Chuji's disciple. He also studied under Hao Datong and Wang Chuyi. He succeeded as the leader of the Chuanzhen Sect in 1227, and around that time the Sect was at its peak. He passed his leader position to Li Zhichang in 1238, though he was still active in setting up or repairing various Taoist Temples, as well as held service in the reburial of Wang Chongyang's remains (with thousands of people attending the event). Even in retirement he was still popular among the people and disciples. On a side note, he was good in persuading people in Shandong to surrender to the Mongolians. The interesting part of the historical Chuanzhen Sect is that it seemed to hold a "cooperate to survive" attitude to the Mongolians, as opposed to the more resistant one in JY's novels. Chiu Chuji himself assigned Yin to persuade the crowds, resulting in Chiu being able to preach and practice in Peking, as well as the growth of the Sect to its peak.
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Post by machete on Jan 7, 2023 15:35:35 GMT
Out of curiosity though, WHY would JY make Qiu Chuji into some kind of flawed good guy and Quanzhen into a heroic sect when they sided with the Mongols in real life? Wouldn't somebody(or multiple people)point that out or use it to discredit his historical knowledge?
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Post by yenchin on Jan 7, 2023 23:20:56 GMT
Probably because JY wrote at a time long before TV and the internet. Historical knowledge like this would probably be limited to scholars or people who really researched. And probably readers at that time didn't care much because they accepted it as fiction. I didn't even know the Chuanzhen Sect actually existed and still existed until like 3 or 4 years after reading the novels. Back in the 2nd edition Jin himself wrote a short article clarifying Yin Zhiping as a normal person and it's like not much cared that he wrote him a rapist.
To be frank, starting from Wang Chongyang JY wrote a totally different sect. The historical Wang Chongyang himself was born in the end of the Northern Song Dynasty. After the Jurchens overran Northern China he attended the martial test of the temporary puppet goverment and won the first place. Later he attended the martial test of the Jin Dynasty and won first place, again, so it's not like he's some resistance leader. Despite his martial (and literal) abilities, he wasn't provided any important positions and after about 20 years as a low rank official he left his post and was inspired into Taoism. He set up his Tomb of the Living Dead (at least this is real, without all the booby traps) and started practicing, and eventually started preaching in Northern China. All under the Jin rule. Most of the Chuanzhen 7, including Chiu Chuji, taught, practiced, and prospered under the Jurchens. Chiu himself sometimes accepted invitations from Jin rulers to preach or assist in persuading rebellions, though if he saw the Emperor unfit he still rejected them.
Later when the Southern Song government invited Chiu he actually rejected. With the rise of the Mongolians Chiu Chuji also maintained good ties with them. At best Chiu at least persuaded Genghis Khan to reduce the killing. And Chiu is often remebered as contributing to the reduced killing of people under the Jin and Mongolian rule. If one thinks of it, since most disciples of the Sect at that time were in Northern China (Jin citizens), of course this needed to be done. Most mainstream religious organizations tend to at least not resist the established government to maintain their religious practices. Nationalism, "Racial justice" really isn't much compared to the survival of their religious legacy.
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Post by Admin on Jan 10, 2023 5:40:57 GMT
If I'm not wrong, JY was forced to write him out in the 3rd edition. He was pressured by the Quanzhen Sect Taoists or Yin Zhiping's descendants. Since there was no such person as Xiaolongnv in real life, he obviously cannot be a rapist. JY did this before in the 2nd edition for Chen Jialuo's mother. She was a real historical figure; in The Book and the Sword serialization, she bore Chen Jialuo after an adulterous affair with Yu Wanting. The members of Haining Chen Clan complained, and JY was forced to remove the adulterous parts and make Qianlong Chen Jialuo's full brother. In the serialization, they were half-brothers. I can imagine if YZP descendants and Quanzhen Sect taoists protested against JY. He's innocent, was a respectable man, passed away already...and suddenly his name appeared thousand years later as a rapist LOL. Wow...I just learned from your post that in the first edition of The Book and the Sword, CJL was an adulterous affair with Yu Wanting. One of the Book and Sword film adaptations made Yu Wanting as the father of CJL - if I'm not mistaken it's the one with Qiao Chenyu as CJL.
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Post by Admin on Jan 10, 2023 5:49:56 GMT
Based on his wiki entry: Yin Zhiping (1169 - 1251, aged 82) was quite a devoted Taoist, and started practicing when he was 13, and experienced various effects of meditation and practicing since he was young. He studied as Ma Yu's disciple but was forced to revert to secularism by his family. Later he became Liu Chushuan's and eventually Chiu Chuji's disciple. He also studied under Hao Datong and Wang Chuyi. He succeeded as the leader of the Chuanzhen Sect in 1227, and around that time the Sect was at its peak. He passed his leader position to Li Zhichang in 1238, though he was still active in setting up or repairing various Taoist Temples, as well as held service in the reburial of Wang Chongyang's remains (with thousands of people attending the event). Even in retirement he was still popular among the people and disciples. On a side note, he was good in persuading people in Shandong to surrender to the Mongolians. The interesting part of the historical Chuanzhen Sect is that it seemed to hold a "cooperate to survive" attitude to the Mongolians, as opposed to the more resistant one in JY's novels. Chiu Chuji himself assigned Yin to persuade the crowds, resulting in Chiu being able to preach and practice in Peking, as well as the growth of the Sect to its peak. Wow.... then he's not a bad person, and seems that he's quite respectable and reputable at that time. Chiu Chuji in real person, was known as Genghiz Khan spiritual leader. Actually Chiu Chuji even went to Samarkand to preach taoism to Genghiz Khan. Genghiz Khan was so impressed by him and later bestowed him a land where later he built the White Cloud Temple in Beijing. I posted about him and White Cloud Temple in wuxiasociety.freeforums.net/thread/304/qiu-chu-ji
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Post by kyc on Jan 10, 2023 6:32:10 GMT
If I'm not wrong, JY was forced to write him out in the 3rd edition. He was pressured by the Quanzhen Sect Taoists or Yin Zhiping's descendants. Since there was no such person as Xiaolongnv in real life, he obviously cannot be a rapist. JY did this before in the 2nd edition for Chen Jialuo's mother. She was a real historical figure; in The Book and the Sword serialization, she bore Chen Jialuo after an adulterous affair with Yu Wanting. The members of Haining Chen Clan complained, and JY was forced to remove the adulterous parts and make Qianlong Chen Jialuo's full brother. In the serialization, they were half-brothers. I can imagine if YZP descendants and Quanzhen Sect taoists protested against JY. He's innocent, was a respectable man, passed away already...and suddenly his name appeared thousand years later as a rapist LOL. Wow...I just learned from your post that in the first edition of The Book and the Sword, CJL was an adulterous affair with Yu Wanting. One of the Book and Sword film adaptations made Yu Wanting as the father of CJL - if I'm not mistaken it's the one with Qiao Chenyu as CJL. There's a minor plot hole in The Book and the Sword as a result. Remember the different Shaolin disciples Chen Jialuo has to fight to learn the secret of Yu Wanting? If it weren't for the fact he actually broke the "no sexual relationship" rule of Shaolin, why should YWT be ejected from the sect? Why should the Shaolin Sect keep the fact as a top secret? But starting from the 2nd edition, without the adulterous affair, it seems harsh or even illogical for the Shaolin Sect to eject him.
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Post by Admin on Jan 10, 2023 7:24:57 GMT
Probably because JY wrote at a time long before TV and the internet. Historical knowledge like this would probably be limited to scholars or people who really researched. And probably readers at that time didn't care much because they accepted it as fiction. I didn't even know the Chuanzhen Sect actually existed and still existed until like 3 or 4 years after reading the novels. Back in the 2nd edition Jin himself wrote a short article clarifying Yin Zhiping as a normal person and it's like not much cared that he wrote him a rapist. To be frank, starting from Wang Chongyang JY wrote a totally different sect. The historical Wang Chongyang himself was born in the end of the Northern Song Dynasty. After the Jurchens overran Northern China he attended the martial test of the temporary puppet goverment and won the first place. Later he attended the martial test of the Jin Dynasty and won first place, again, so it's not like he's some resistance leader. Despite his martial (and literal) abilities, he wasn't provided any important positions and after about 20 years as a low rank official he left his post and was inspired into Taoism. He set up his Tomb of the Living Dead (at least this is real, without all the booby traps) and started practicing, and eventually started preaching in Northern China. All under the Jin rule. Most of the Chuanzhen 7, including Chiu Chuji, taught, practiced, and prospered under the Jurchens. Chiu himself sometimes accepted invitations from Jin rulers to preach or assist in persuading rebellions, though if he saw the Emperor unfit he still rejected them. Later when the Southern Song government invited Chiu he actually rejected. With the rise of the Mongolians Chiu Chuji also maintained good ties with them. At best Chiu at least persuaded Genghis Khan to reduce the killing. And Chiu is often remebered as contributing to the reduced killing of people under the Jin and Mongolian rule. If one thinks of it, since most disciples of the Sect at that time were in Northern China (Jin citizens), of course this needed to be done. Most mainstream religious organizations tend to at least not resist the established government to maintain their religious practices. Nationalism, "Racial justice" really isn't much compared to the survival of their religious legacy. This is very insightful, thanks a lot yenchin True, back at that time when JY wrote his novels, there's no internet. And back at that time, it's very difficult and almost impossible for people to do research easily. Can't imagine if one had to go to library and read hundreds of books just to get information about Quanzhen, Qiu Chuji, Wang Chongyang, Yin Zhiping, etc. Nationalism, "Racial justice" really isn't much compared to the survival of their religious legacy. I guess it's not only about their survival of their religious legacy - but about survival of the people. At that time the Song Dynasty was very corrupt, and people lived a hard live. Many people didn't really care who was the ruler - the Han ethnic or Mongolian ....as long as they had enough food to eat and live. This also applies to the Ming Dynasty and later Manchurian ruler.
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