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Post by atumiwa on May 14, 2020 6:36:49 GMT
能,因为书中第一回便言道,林震南为了对付青城派的威胁,要给夫人做寿,夫人属虎,今年实岁三十九。很容易算出故事发生在蛇年,即巳年。相关时段里,1497、1509、1521年为蛇年。综合上文所述,定位为1509年最为妥当。
she is tiger zodiac (age 39) , then what is the next explanation? that year should be the year of pig (1503,1515,1527) , but why he use the year of snake instead? (1497,1509,1521)
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Post by kyc on Jul 14, 2020 16:35:40 GMT
I haven't posted for weeks. In the meantime I have been reading The Return of the Condor Heroes (AKA Divine Condor, Chivalric Couple AKA Shendiao Xialü 神鵰俠侶). The last time I read this novel, I read it haphazardly, skipping from episode to episode to follow the TV series. After more than a decade, I've finally decided to read the novel from cover to cover. This novel is somewhat controversial, based on online reviews. Many dislike it intensely, even ranking it last among the Condor Trilogy. I thought I would hate it too, since I didn't really like Yang Guo in the TV series. But when I read this book (I just finished it tonight), I found myself liking it a lot. I really sympathize with Yang Guo. Yang Guo now ranks alongside Hu Fei as my favorite JY hero. SDXL is almost perfect, and an advancement over The Legend of the Condor Heroes to me. The cast is more memorable, the pacing and the plot more riveting. Yang Guo is better delineated (more 3D) than Guo Jing. Guo Jing is a simpleton, Yang Guo is not. I am more invested emotionally in this novel than in any other KY besides The Young Flying Fox. And FHWZ isn't as well written as SDXL. This wuxia novel, like Demigods and Semi-devils, also has thematic coherence. Its over-aching theme is "love." I found the characters' motivations convincing too (although I have some misgivings about Xiaolongnü). A word about Yang Guo. I thought I would dislike him, but JY describes his inner turmoil and struggles so well, it's hard not to feel for him. I admit that SDXL is controversial. Whether you like it will depend on how much you like Yang Guo and Xiaolongnü. There's even a blogger who ranked it last among JY's novels, but I will definitely rank it among JY's top four or five. I have to nitpick about Xiaolongnü though. She follows her rapist Yi Zhiping for a month, not knowing what to do. ). There are some incredulous parts (a woman surviving a decade on a date tree, a one-month-old baby surviving on nectar for a week). My next JY novel will be The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber, which I also read in bits to follow the TV series. Structurally and thematically, JY is in a class of his own. In short, a splendid and memorable wuxia novel.
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Post by kyc on Jul 14, 2020 16:52:45 GMT
能,因为书中第一回便言道,林震南为了对付青城派的威胁,要给夫人做寿,夫人属虎,今年实岁三十九。很容易算出故事发生在蛇年,即巳年。相关时段里,1497、1509、1521年为蛇年。综合上文所述,定位为1509年最为妥当。 she is tiger zodiac (age 39) , then what is the next explanation? that year should be the year of pig (1503,1515,1527) , but why he use the year of snake instead? (1497,1509,1521) I don't remember much about this, it's so long ago since I read it, but some years must have passed after Lin Zhennan's wife's zodiac year.
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Post by soengyee on Jul 15, 2020 15:27:02 GMT
I haven't posted for weeks, in the meantime I have been reading The Return of the Condor Heroes (AKA Divine Condor, Chivalric Couple AKA Shendiao Xialü 神鵰俠侶). My previous reading of this novel had been haphazard, skipping from episode to episode to follow the TV series. After more than a decade, I finally decided to read this book from cover to cover. Reading reviews online, this novel can be described as somewhat controversial. Many readers dislike this book intensely, many even rank it last within the Condor Trilogy. Before I reread it, I thought I would hate it too, since I didn't really like Yang Guo in the TV series. But when I read this book (just finished it tonight), I found myself marveling over how imaginative it is and how much I empathize (and sympathize) with Yang Guo. Yang Guo now ranks alongside Hu Fei as my favorite JY hero. SDXL is well nigh the perfect wuxia novel, and represents to me an advancement over The Legend of the Condor Heroes. The cast is more memorable, the pacing and the plot more riveting, and Yang Guo is better delineated (more 3D) than Guo Jing. Guo Jing is a simpleton, but Yang Guo is not. I am more invested emotionally in this novel than in any other Jin Yong besides Feihu Waizhuan ( The Young Flying Fox). And FHWZ isn't as well written as SDXL. Furthermore, this wuxia novel, like Demigods and Semi-devils, actually has thematic coherence. A lot of people have pointed out its theme is "love." It is indeed, and how well delineated. I found the characters' motivations more convincing too (although I have some misgiving about Xiaolongnü). A word about Yang Guo, who is probably JY's most controversial hero after Wei Xiaobao. I thought I would dislike him, but Jin Yong spilled so much ink describing his inner turmoil and struggles, and Yang Guo is such a passionate man (what they call 至情至性), that I find it hard not to feel for him. To me, SDXL is one of those peaks of wuxia fiction that can only be rivaled, never surpassed. With each passing chapter I marveled anew over how many different characters it contains, and how riveting the plot is. I admit that SDXL is controversial. Your response to it is likely how much you like Yang Guo and Xiaolongnü. I've read someone ranked it last among JY's novels, but I will definitely rank it among JY's top four. If I have to nitpick, it will have to be about Xiaolongnü (who can follow her rapist Yi Zhiping for a month, without knowing what to do with him. ). There are some incredulous parts (a woman surviving a decade on a date tree, a one-month-old baby surviving on nectar for a week), but I find them mere sunspots on the sun. My next JY novel will be The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber, which I read similarly in a haphazard fashion (to follow the TV series). My respect and awe for JY grows with each new novel. I think LYS, if he improved his disorganization, might have matched JY in potential, but after reading SDXL, I now think it impossible for LYS to upstage JY. Structurally and thematically, JY is in a class of his own. In short, what a splendid and memorable wuxia novel. Ah kyc, so I am not the only person who likes this novel. lol For the longest time I have been afraid to admit it because I have seen a lot of backlash about the novel and YG himself. However I don't like his character as much as you do. lol What really fascinates me are the fight scenes though (especially the ones with XLN after learning L/R technique), there's just no way any TV/movie adaption could portray the speed and agility this character performs. One problem I did have is the amount of love interests for YG (well it's all one sided really as we all know YG only loves XLN), it seems JY himself didn't know what to do with all the women either. Then again I guess there's not many candidates other than YG (with the exception of YLQ and I have no idea how someone like him could fall in love with GF). I have to agree I prefer this novel and storyline over the previous (LOCH), I couldn't finish reading that novel. I did have to skip some parts of this novel though, not a whole lot. YG was annoying in the beginning how he hyped up HR's beauty like no tomorrow and than XLN comes along and takes the cake. I know the TVB 1995 version of ROCH is probably the closest of the novel but believe it or not I did not like that adaption like everyone else. I also did not like Louis Koo (yes kill me), except the older YG (after 16 years) as he does better in emotional scenes. The beginning and middle was unbearable for me, Andy Lau was so much better IMHO. Carmen Lee is very pretty and probably the prettiest and simplest XLN to date but her dress is ugly. I am old fashioned and I still prefer Idy Chan (even though Carmen is prettier). However no TV adaption to date has ever portrayed the last chapter of ROCH at Mount Hua. In fact young ZSF and his master never appear in any TV adaption and Shaolin is never mentioned (when I was young I watched the TV adaptions before reading the novels so when I watched HSDS it confused me how GX knew monk JueYuan). Every adaption seems to end after the Tomb scene where everyone pays their respect to HQG and OYF and the new naming of the greats.
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Post by kyc on Jul 23, 2020 10:03:37 GMT
Ah kyc, so I am not the only person who likes this novel. lol For the longest time I have been afraid to admit it because I have seen a lot of backlash about the novel and YG himself. However I don't like his character as much as you do. lol What really fascinates me are the fight scenes though (especially the ones with XLN after learning L/R technique), there's just no way any TV/movie adaption could portray the speed and agility this character performs. One problem I did have is the amount of love interests for YG (well it's all one sided really as we all know YG only loves XLN), it seems JY himself didn't know what to do with all the women either. Then again I guess there's not many candidates other than YG (with the exception of YLQ and I have no idea how someone like him could fall in love with GF). I have to agree I prefer this novel and storyline over the previous (LOCH), I couldn't finish reading that novel. I did have to skip some parts of this novel though, not a whole lot. YG was annoying in the beginning how he hyped up HR's beauty like no tomorrow and than XLN comes along and takes the cake. I know the TVB 1995 version of ROCH is probably the closest of the novel but believe it or not I did not like that adaption like everyone else. I also did not like Louis Koo (yes kill me), except the older YG (after 16 years) as he does better in emotional scenes. The beginning and middle was unbearable for me, Andy Lau was so much better IMHO. Carmen Lee is very pretty and probably the prettiest and simplest XLN to date but her dress is ugly. I am old fashioned and I still prefer Idy Chan (even though Carmen is prettier). However no TV adaption to date has ever portrayed the last chapter of ROCH at Mount Hua. In fact young ZSF and his master never appear in any TV adaption and Shaolin is never mentioned (when I was young I watched the TV adaptions before reading the novels so when I watched HSDS it confused me how GX knew monk JueYuan). Every adaption seems to end after the Tomb scene where everyone pays their respect to HQG and OYF and the new naming of the greats. The part about the last chapter at Mount Hua I can explain. JY was just giving a hint of what is to come in his next novel. Ming Pao had to sell. It didn't really belong to ROCH, so TV adaptations got rid of it. JY is definitely not so democratic about women as LYS. LYS tends to write two or three guys liking a girl. With JY it's the other way round. It's almost as if many guys liking a girl will make her unchaste.
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Post by atumiwa on Jul 24, 2020 6:41:17 GMT
yeah, the only woman in JY's that loved by 3 or more men , i can think only one, Ma Chunhua in the young flying fox
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Post by atumiwa on Aug 7, 2020 9:26:16 GMT
the bold sentence, what's that mean in your version?
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Post by kyc on Aug 7, 2020 13:47:48 GMT
the bold sentence, what's that mean in your version? "He was actually much stronger than Guo Jing and had great internal energy, but his palm and kungfu were somewhat inferior."
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Post by atumiwa on Aug 8, 2020 4:43:52 GMT
it's make controversy , isnt it? Guo Jing should not that weak, Guo Jing with a 9-Yin should be little stronger than Jinlun Guoshi or at least on par
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Post by kyc on Aug 8, 2020 13:32:33 GMT
it's make controversy , isnt it? Guo Jing should not that weak, Guo Jing with a 9-Yin should be little stronger than Jinlun Guoshi or at least on par Usually, Jin Yong makes a distinction between internal strength (內力) and external kungfu (武功). Usually the older martial artists will have greater internal strength. It's true that Guo Jing has the Nine-Yin Manual, but he is also much younger than Reverend Golden Wheel. He must be like 20 or 30 years younger. I mean wuxia is fictitious so JY can give any reason. Sometimes JY is not so logical, maybe this is one example.
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Post by kyc on Nov 23, 2020 8:13:40 GMT
After three weeks of diligent reading, I finally finished The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber (《倚天屠龍記》). It's a really good novel. although by the time I came to the fourth book, Zhang Wuji's wishy-washiness got a little farcical. I like it a lot, but overall, I still place it slightly below The Return of the Condor Heroes, mainly due to "internal inconsistencies" and partly due to Zhang Wuji--possibly the most indecisive protagonist in the wuxia oeuvre. The climaxes are more exciting than the first two parts of the trilogy. Much of the novel is more imaginative (unexpected twists and turns) than LOCH or ROCH. (By the way, I read the second edition, not the third "millennium" edition.) Zhang Wuji, like what JY said, will make a good and faithful friend, but not a good husband. JY said Zhang Wuji probably doesn't know who he really loves, and I agree. It was a bit painful reading all the promises he makes to his girlfriends and him reneging them one after another. The internal inconsistencies are what I think are the primary flaws of the book. JY has a style which tries to explain everything; not everything he explains is credible to me. Now and then, I would shake my head if I find them unconvincing. Quite a few "psychological inconsistencies": feminists will roll in their graves when Ji Xiaofu names her bastard child "No Regrets", especially since Yang Xiao raped her. The changes in Zhao Min and Zhou Zhiruo's personalities are not convincing. Hard to believe after so many devious schemes, the Ming Cult and Wudang Sect will still accept Zhao Min without suspicion: surely, they must have heard of 美人計 and 苦肉計? Would anyone trust her after she nearly murdered the orthodox sect leaders and so many Ming Cult members? Zhou Zhiruo was a weak and gentle girl until forced by her master to betray Zhang Wuji, but her change is way too sudden and unconvincing. A few bugs not removed in version 2. For example, why would the Ming Cult refuse to admit they wrote the audacious words behind the arhat statues (先誅少林,再滅武當,唯我明教,武林稱王)? If they wouldn't admit it, why would they have written them in the first place? It's such a big plothole I think JY was having an off day... All in all, The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber is still a very exciting novel if you can endure Zhang Wuji's indecisiveness. I place this novel slightly below The Return of the Condor Heroes. If forced to give a rating, I would rate it 4.5/5. BTW, did the third edition explain why Zhang Wuji left the Ming Cult to Zhu Yuanzhang? The explanation in the 2nd edition is unconvincing. Did Zhu Yuanzhang come up with a better scheme in v. 3? The Deer and the Cauldron the n ext year!
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Post by yufeng on Nov 23, 2020 8:30:14 GMT
After three weeks of diligent reading, I have finally finished The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber (《倚天屠龍記》). It is indeed some novel, although by the time I came to the fourth volume, Zhang Wuji's wishy-washiness got a little farcical. I like it a lot, but overall, I still place it slightly below The Return of the Condor Heroes, mainly due to "internal inconsistencies" and partly due to Zhang Wuji--possibly the most indecisive protagonist in love in the entire wuxia oeuvre. Yet the climaxes of this novel are more exciting than in the first two parts of the trilogy. Much of the novel is more imaginative (with unexpected twists and turns) than LOCH or ROCH. (By the way, I read the second edition, not the third "millennium" edition.) Zhang Wuji, like what JY said, will make a good and faithful friend, but not a good husband. JY said Zhang Wuji probably doesn't know who he really loves, and I agree with that. So it was a bit painful reading all the promises he makes to his girlfriends and him reneging them one after another. The internal inconsistencies are what I think are the primary flaws of the book. JY has a style which tries to explain everything, but not everything he explained is credible to me, and now and then, I would shake my head if I found them unconvincing. Quite a few "psychological inconsistencies", for example: feminists will roll in their graves when Ji Xiaofu names her bastard child "No Regrets", especially since she conceived after Yang Xiao raped her. The changes in Zhao Min and Zhou Zhiruo's personalities are not convincing. Hard to believe after so many devious schemes, the Ming Cult and Wudang Sect will accept Zhao Min without suspicion: surely, they must have heard of 美人計 and 苦肉計? Would anyone trust her after she nearly murdered the orthodox sect leaders and so many Ming Cult members? Zhou Zhiruo was a weak and gentle girl until forced by her master to betray Zhang Wuji, but her change is way too sudden and unconvincing. A few bugs which do not seem to have been removed in version 3. For example, why would the Ming Cult refuse to admit they wrote the audacious words behind the arhat statues (先誅少林,再滅武當,唯我明教,武林稱王)? If they wouldn't admit it, why would they have written them in the first place? Both Shaolin Sect and Ming Cult ought to have their brains examined... it's such a big plothole that I think JY was having an off day... All in all, The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber is still a very exciting novel if you can endure Zhang Wuji's indecisiveness in love. I place this novel slightly below The Return of the Condor Heroes, and if forced to give a rating, would rate it at 4.5/5. BTW, could someone who have read the third edition explain why Zhang Wuji left the Ming Cult to Zhu Yuanzhang? The ruse in the second edition is unconvincing. Did Zhu Yuanzhang come up with a better scheme in v. 3? I believe that they change Zhao Min part for the 3rd edition. None of the Ming Cult trusts Zhao Min. Have you watched the 2019 new drama adaption yet?
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Post by kyc on Nov 23, 2020 8:33:53 GMT
I believe that they change Zhao Min part for the 3rd edition. None of the Ming Cult trusts Zhao Min. Have you watched the 2019 new drama adaption yet? Did they? I would love to know the Zhao Min parts they changed. No, I haven't watched the 2019 version. Is the Zhang Wuji there better than Tony Leung?
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Post by soengyee on Nov 24, 2020 1:22:44 GMT
After three weeks of diligent reading, I have finally finished The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber (《倚天屠龍記》). It is indeed some novel, although by the time I came to the fourth volume, Zhang Wuji's wishy-washiness got a little farcical. I like it a lot, but overall, I still place it slightly below The Return of the Condor Heroes, mainly due to "internal inconsistencies" and partly due to Zhang Wuji--possibly the most indecisive protagonist in love in the entire wuxia oeuvre. Yet the climaxes of this novel are more exciting than in the first two parts of the trilogy. Much of the novel is more imaginative (with unexpected twists and turns) than LOCH or ROCH. (By the way, I read the second edition, not the third "millennium" edition.) Zhang Wuji, like what JY said, will make a good and faithful friend, but not a good husband. JY said Zhang Wuji probably doesn't know who he really loves, and I agree with that. So it was a bit painful reading all the promises he makes to his girlfriends and him reneging them one after another. The internal inconsistencies are what I think are the primary flaws of the book. JY has a style which tries to explain everything, but not everything he explained is credible to me, and now and then, I would shake my head if I found them unconvincing. Quite a few "psychological inconsistencies", for example: feminists will roll in their graves when Ji Xiaofu names her bastard child "No Regrets", especially since she conceived after Yang Xiao raped her. The changes in Zhao Min and Zhou Zhiruo's personalities are not convincing. Hard to believe after so many devious schemes, the Ming Cult and Wudang Sect will accept Zhao Min without suspicion: surely, they must have heard of 美人計 and 苦肉計? Would anyone trust her after she nearly murdered the orthodox sect leaders and so many Ming Cult members? Zhou Zhiruo was a weak and gentle girl until forced by her master to betray Zhang Wuji, but her change is way too sudden and unconvincing. A few bugs which do not seem to have been removed in version 3. For example, why would the Ming Cult refuse to admit they wrote the audacious words behind the arhat statues (先誅少林,再滅武當,唯我明教,武林稱王)? If they wouldn't admit it, why would they have written them in the first place? Both Shaolin Sect and Ming Cult ought to have their brains examined... it's such a big plothole that I think JY was having an off day... All in all, The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber is still a very exciting novel if you can endure Zhang Wuji's indecisiveness in love. I place this novel slightly below The Return of the Condor Heroes, and if forced to give a rating, would rate it at 4.5/5. BTW, could someone who have read the third edition explain why Zhang Wuji left the Ming Cult to Zhu Yuanzhang? The ruse in the second edition is unconvincing. Did Zhu Yuanzhang come up with a better scheme in v. 3? Next year, The Deer and the Cauldron! I was so excited when towards the end Zhou Zhiruo becomes all powerful when learning the unorthodox skills but it turns out her skills were only so-so and ZWJ could have easily defeated her but like you said he was simply too wishy washy. And then have her new skills negated by the end and basically destroying anything she had learned. Why does Jin Yong not like to promote strong women I wonder. Yellow Lady Yang of course is an exception although little details is given about her; though it is safe to assume she is Yang Guo's great grand daughter. Another thing that bothered me was the handling of little spider. I don't necessarily like or hate this character but it seemed even Jin Yong didn't know what to do with her given that we had believed she was killed off only to have her survive her death. It seems like it wasn't planned out very well. I actually prefer the change the TVB 1986 version had which had her killed off for good.
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Post by kyc on Nov 25, 2020 8:06:51 GMT
soengyee , I actually don't understand why Zhu'er wasn't killed either. It seems to be an excuse to white-wash Zhou Zhiruo so Zhang Wuji can vacillate between her and Zhao Min. And yes, Zhou Zhiruo isn't that great in kungfu either; JY says she's even weaker than Zhang Wuji's Wudang uncles. Only Lin Chaoying is among the top martial artists within JY's female fighters. I think JY for some reason don't trust career-minded women. Chen Jialuo prefers Princess Fragrance to Huo Qingtong, although Huo is much more intelligent, so much so that Princess Fragrance appears like a moron. Yet Chen Jialuo prefers her to Huo Qingtong (who can plan and strategize). Maybe JY is just scared of career women. His favorite girls are all docile girls in service of their masters, who gives up everything for love (Xiaozhao, Shuang'er, Cheng Lingsu etc.) In comparison, LYS has Ling Yunfeng (凌雲鳳), who separates from her husband and is Lian Nichang's master. Her kungfu is on par with her husband, but sadly they have to part due to ideological differences. Lian Nichang, Li Shengnan, Yu Chengzhu, the Heavenly Glacier Maiden are all not inferior in kungfu to their boyfriends/husbands. Zhu'er is tragic in that JY doesn't seem to care very much about her, leaving her to roam the world looking for a non-existent boyfriend, mentally ill.
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