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Post by chefying on Jul 23, 2014 10:52:07 GMT
This brings to an official end the list of Organisations found in Wuxia books as per wikipedia. '
I will do a cross reference later.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 23, 2014 13:34:07 GMT
amazing work--thanks, chef!
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 23, 2014 13:45:57 GMT
just thinking about ping zong 萍踪侠影錄 and realized there aren't that many organizations! both zhang and yun are 2nd gen disciples, but the founder doesn't really have a proper name for his school--they're just called the disciples of 玄機逸士 (sorry, don't have the pinyin handy). anyway, i'll skim the books and list any i find.
will start with these:
金刀寨 jin dao zai (golden sabre lodge) 黑石莊 hei shi zhuang (black rock manse)
EDIT: thanks to baidu, i don't need to skim the books (well, at least not for the major ones)
武當 wudang 飲馬川寨 太谷莊 西藏紅教 點蒼派
would you consider the royal guards 御林軍? and the ming secret service 錦衣衛?
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Post by chefying on Jul 24, 2014 4:59:43 GMT
just thinking about ping zong 萍踪侠影錄 and realized there aren't that many organizations! both zhang and yun are 2nd gen disciples, but the founder doesn't really have a proper name for his school--they're just called the disciples of 玄機逸士 (sorry, don't have the pinyin handy). anyway, i'll skim the books and list any i find. will start with these: 金刀寨 jin dao zai (golden sabre lodge) 黑石莊 hei shi zhuang (black rock manse) EDIT: thanks to baidu, i don't need to skim the books (well, at least not for the major ones) 武當 wudang 飲馬川寨 太谷莊 西藏紅教 點蒼派 Oh good! Will update later - if you have more, I will do one massive update, then a cross reference. I agree these are organisations, but these are officially sanctioned and does not have the element of danger/illegality in them - not quite "unruly jianghu" enough for my liking. What's your take on this?
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 24, 2014 18:26:25 GMT
just thinking about ping zong 萍踪侠影錄 and realized there aren't that many organizations! both zhang and yun are 2nd gen disciples, but the founder doesn't really have a proper name for his school--they're just called the disciples of 玄機逸士 (sorry, don't have the pinyin handy). anyway, i'll skim the books and list any i find. will start with these: 金刀寨 jin dao zai (golden sabre lodge) 黑石莊 hei shi zhuang (black rock manse) EDIT: thanks to baidu, i don't need to skim the books (well, at least not for the major ones) 武當 wudang 飲馬川寨 太谷莊 西藏紅教 點蒼派 Oh good! Will update later - if you have more, I will do one massive update, then a cross reference. I agree these are organisations, but these are officially sanctioned and does not have the element of danger/illegality in them - not quite "unruly jianghu" enough for my liking. What's your take on this? i'm with you: since they are very much anti-jianghu, best to leave them out. i don't think i have anything to add re: organizations in PZXYL. there are hardly any! the book's focus isn't the politics within jianghu, so very few mentions of jianghu organizations. majority of the ones listed barely have any presence in the books, never mind playing important parts in the plot.
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Post by chefying on Sept 8, 2014 17:22:34 GMT
I have done a cross reference of the Organisations mentioned in various authors based on the list of Organisations provided by wikipedia, but updated by our members in the previous threads.
Note that authors are divided into five categories,
i) Jin Yong (JY) ii) Gu Long (GL) iii) Liang Yu Sheng (LYS) iv) Huang Ying (HY) v) Others
My analysis is as below.
Multiple appearances
Shaolin Sect (少林派) comes up top with appearances in 10 books by three authors - 8 books by JY, being Book & Sword, Return of the Condor Heroes, Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, Smiling Proud Wanderer, Deer & Cauldron, Demi Gods and Semi Demons , Gallantry Ode, Other Tales of the Flying Fox; Chu Liu Xiang by GL, and lastly, in LYS's White Hair Demoness.
Wudang Sect (武當派) comes in second as it appeared in 9 books by three authors - Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, Book & Sword, Deer & Cauldron, Gallantry Ode, Smiling Proud Wanderer by JY; Lu XiaoFeng by GL, Ping Zhong Xia Ying (Wanderer), Seven Swords and White Hair Demoness by LYS.
Beggars' Sect (丐幫) appeared in 8 books by 2 authors - Legend of the Condor Heroes, Return of the Condor Heroes, Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, Deer & Cauldron, Demi Gods and Semi Demons, Fox Volant of the Snowy Mountain, Smiling Proud Wanderer by JY, and in Chu Liu Xiang by GL.
Triple Appearances
Emei Sect (峨嵋派)appeared in three books by three authors - Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre by JY, Lu Xiao Feng by GL, and White Hair by LYS.
Mount Heaven Sect (天山派)appeared in three books by two authors, Demi Gods and Semi Demons by JY, and Seven Swords and White Hair by LYS.
Heavenly Dragon Sect (天龍門)appeared in three books by two authors. It appeared in Fox Volant of the Snowy Mountain and Other Tales of Flying Fox by JY, and on a book by GL (the book was classified under "others" by wiki).
Mount Hua Sect (華山派) appeared in three books, Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, Sword Stained with Royal Blood and Smiling Proud Wanderer, all of them written by JY.
Duan family of Dali (大理國 段氏) appeared in three books, Legend of the Condor Heroes, Return of the Condor Heroes and Demi Gods and Semi Demons, all by JY.
Double Appearances
Demonic Cult (魔教)appeared in GL's Lu Xiao Feng and Dagger Li. If my memory serves these two stories are not related.
Diancang Sect (點蒼派)appeared in Sword Stained with Royal Blood by JY and Wanderer by LYS.
Dragon Gate Gang (龍門幫)appeared in JY's Book and Sword, and LYS's White Hair.
Heaven and Earth Society (天地會)appeared in Deer & Cauldron by JY, and Seven Swords by LYS.
Mount Changbai Sect (長白山派)was mentioned in Legend of the Condor Heroes by JY and Seven Swords by LYS.
Songyang Sect (嵩陽派)appeared in JY's Book and Sword, and LYS's White Hair.
Lumping together Taiji Sect (太極派)and Taiji Sect (太極門), the former appeared in LYS's White Hair, while the latter appeared in JY's Other Tales of Flying Fox.
Skanda Sect (韋陀門)appeared in JY's Other Tales of Flying Fox and in some book by "other" author as classified by wiki.
Again, lumping together Wuji Sect (無極門) and Wuji Fist Sect (無極拳門), the former appeared in JY's Fox Volant of the Snowy Mountain while the latter existed in some book by "other" author as classified by wiki.
Yingui Sect (陰癸派)was mentioned in HY's Da Tang Shuang Long Zhuang and in some book by "other" author as classified by wiki.
Yinma River Mountain Stronghold (飲馬川山寨)existed in Fox Volant of the Snowy Mountain by JY and in Wanderer by LYS.
Iron Sword Sect (鐵劍門) appeared in Sword Stained with Royal Blood and Deer & Cauldron, both by JY. These books are not related.
Heavenly Dragon Sect of Tibet (西藏天龍派) came to being under LYS's pen in the books White Hair and Seven Swords. I don't believe these two books are related.
Kunlun Sect (崑崙派) appeared in JY's Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre and the unrelated Deer & Cauldron.
Qingcheng Sect (青城派) appeared JY's unrelated books, Smiling Proud Wanderer, and Demi Gods and Semi Demons, both being JY's works.
Similarly, Qingliang Monastery (清涼寺) appeared in two unrelated books by JY, Sword Stained with Royal Blood, Deer & Cauldron.
Iron Palm Sect (鐵掌幫) appeared JY's Legend of the Condor Heroes and Return of the Condor Heroes, these two stories being linked in the Condor Trilogy.
The same is true of Peach Blossom Island (桃花島) and Quanzhen Sect (全真教) both appeared in two books only, Legend of the Condor Heroes and Return of the Condor Heroes, being the first two books from JY's Condor Trilogy.
Three variations of the Vajra 金剛 Organisation had appeared in three books, Vajra Sect (金剛宗) was in Return of the Condor Heroes, Vajra Sect (金剛門) appeared in Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre while the Vajra Sect of the Western Regions (西域金剛門) was mentioned in Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, all written by JY.
I was not able to find any other Organisations that appeared in two books.
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Post by chefying on Sept 8, 2014 17:23:41 GMT
The above list was a pain to create. Hope it comes to be of use some time. I do not dare say it is complete though.
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Post by Admin on Sept 10, 2014 12:19:49 GMT
This is valuable. I made it sticky
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Post by chefying on Sept 25, 2014 14:33:16 GMT
Looking at the analysis I did, I started to have a thought on the idea of Four Main Schools / Six Main Schools of the martial world that is sometimes quoted in the wuxia literature.
For example, In Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, the Six Main Schools 六大门派 gathered their forces and headed up Ming Peak to attack the Ming Cult. In this instance, the six main schools were
1) Shaolin 2) Wudang 3) Emei 4) Hua Shan 5) Kongtong 6) Kunlun
Looking at the list, only Shaolin and Wudang made multiple appearances in wuxia literature. Beggar Clan also made many appearances, but was not listed as one of the Six Main Schools. For heaven's sake, in appeared in seven of the books written by JinYong. I suppose it was omitted because Beggar Clan was not deemed a "school" of martial arts.
Meanwhile, Emei was in three books by three authors - in terms of the use of its name by authors (ignoring appearances in the number of books). Shaolin and Wudang also had their Schools used by three authors.
So, by the number of authors who evoked them, Shaolin, Wudang and Emei would rank as top three schools of the martial world.
Hua Shan sect had three mentions - but they were all by one author only - JinYong.
(Please check for me - wasn't Hua Shan evoked in Ping Zhong Xia Ying/Wanderer ?)
Kunlun had two mentions - both by JinYong only.
Kongtong was worse - it had only one mention, and that was by JinYong in Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre.
So, looking back on the Six Main Schools, I would say that JinYong's evocation of these six schools as main schools would be very much JinYong's own definition - dare I say, whim.
One thing for certain that I would say though, I am spending too much time on this analysis!
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Post by atumiwa on Dec 26, 2020 9:18:13 GMT
does anyone know if the emei sect in LYS' and Gu Long's universe have more male or female members??
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Post by atumiwa on Jan 5, 2021 9:25:29 GMT
Multiple appearancesBeggars' Sect ( 丐幫) appeared in 8 books by 2 authors - Legend of the Condor Heroes, Return of the Condor Heroes, Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, Deer & Cauldron, Demi Gods and Semi Demons, Fox Volant of the Snowy Mountain, Smiling Proud Wanderer by JY, and in Chu Liu Xiang by GL. Triple AppearancesMount Heaven Sect ( 天山派)appeared in three books by two authors, Demi Gods and Semi Demons by JY, and Seven Swords and White Hair by LYS. Double AppearancesMount Changbai Sect ( 長白山派)was mentioned in Legend of the Condor Heroes by JY and Seven Swords by LYS. Songyang Sect ( 嵩陽派)appeared in JY's Book and Sword, and LYS's White Hair. Three variations of the Vajra 金剛 Organisation had appeared in three books, Vajra Sect ( 金剛宗) was in Return of the Condor Heroes, Vajra Sect ( 金剛門) appeared in Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre while the Vajra Sect of the Western Regions ( 西域金剛門) was mentioned in Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, all written by JY. if you dont mind, i need to correct some texts Beggar sect also appeared on LYS' novel such as Xiagu Danxin 俠骨丹心 (patriotic knight/ 侠骨丹心). there are no Mount Heaven Sect in DGSD, Tianshan Tonglao's sect is called Lingjiu Palace (or vulture palace) and it's based on Mount Heaven, so the location is on Mount Heaven, not the name of sect. there is no Mount Changbai Sect in LOCH, wikipedia is wrong about this. there is someone who is from changbai , he is "mr.ginseng" Liang Ziweng, but Changbai here is geographical location, not the name of sect
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