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Post by yenchin on Jul 28, 2018 17:13:25 GMT
siuyiu Are you Cantonese ? Is majority of Chinese in North America are Cantonese clan? In South East Asian like Malaysia and Singapore ,Hokkien are the majority clan while Cantonese is 3rd clan . I heard that Cantonese lost by single vote to Mandarin when China choose which dialect to become Chinese language after the overthrow of Qing dynasty in 1911,is this true,? I always hear about Hokkien and I even have some Yang Li Hua's Hokkien dramas, but what is it actually ? Is it how is called Taiwanese language ? I'm too busy to have searched the meaning of this word, sorry... A very brief answer for this is Hokkien is the language from mainly the southern parts of the Fujian province of China. The Flying Dragon, Ching Long, and Dancing Dragon series are in the Taiwanese dialect of Hokkien. It's roots can be traced back to various times of old China when people moved to Fujian and mixed the Chinese language at that time with the local language. Some old Chinese has been retained in the Hokkien language such as the 入 tone, literary and colloquial readings (same word, different pronunciation). Most of it can be written using Chinese characters, and Chinese characters can be read aloud, word by word, in Hokkien. For instance, "Hokkien" is the Hokkien pronunciation of Fujian. Yang Li Hua is pronounced "Iû Lē Hoa" in Hokkien. The opening theme of her shows start with a strong exclamating singing of "Iû Lē-hoa~~~~~~~~Koa-á-hi!" (Yang Li Hua~~~~~~~~Taiwanese Opera!) Example of using Hokkien to read a classic text. In Mandarin In English (Personally I think it's not done well, but it has heart put in it.)
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Post by reinafu on Jul 28, 2018 17:35:35 GMT
Thank you very much for the explanations and the clips. I noticed that the character " xia " is pronouced in Hokkien " ha ", and it seems to me that it's the same in Cantonese, right ?
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 17:39:28 GMT
thanks for this great lesson, yenchin! i do know that one of the consonant beginning differences between Hokkien and Cantonese is the the "H" to "F" conversion. for example, Hokkien in Canto is pronounced "Fookgeen" (non-standard transliteration). and the earliest translation of the sherlock holmes 福爾摩斯 stories was done by someone who spoke Hokkien. and that's why in Canto and Mandarin, "Holmes" starts with an "F" sound instead of an "H" sound--i.e., Fook Yi Moh See and fú'ěrmósī, respectively.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 28, 2018 17:43:50 GMT
Example of using Hokkien to read a classic text. interesting--to my ear, Hokkien sounds like a combo of Taishan and Mandarin! and since Taishan is a sub-dialect of Canto, there are some overlaps, but not that many, between Hokkien and the Canto spoken in Hong Kong (i have to specify this because the Guangzhou Canto is slightly different from the HK, and i don't know enough of the Guangzhou variation to comment).
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Post by yenchin on Jul 29, 2018 2:20:30 GMT
reinafu siuyiuAnother example would be Hawaii 夏威夷. In Mandarin it would be "Xia Wei Yi" and confusing on why "Xia" was chosen. But if pronounced in Canto or Hokkien it becomes "Ha" and it is obvious the first Chinese people who arrived there were from these regions. Taishan seems to also have some relationship with Hokkien. I remember watching some movies where the characters sometimes burst out a couple Teochew and it sounds like a different accented Hokkien.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 29, 2018 3:35:20 GMT
yenchin hahaha, yes, indeed! "ha why ee" has always sounded sensible to me. and i think hokkien, canto, and teochew stem from the same archaic language, so it's not surprising that there are overlaps and similarities. do you know if teochow has also kept the 入 tones like canto & hokkien?
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Post by yenchin on Jul 29, 2018 4:11:50 GMT
yenchin hahaha, yes, indeed! "ha why ee" has always sounded sensible to me. and i think hokkien, canto, and teochew stem from the same archaic language, so it's not surprising that there are overlaps and similarities. do you know if teochow has also kept the 入 tones like canto & hokkien? Yes it is. The checked/entering tone (finally looked it up on Wiki) has disappeared only in modern Mandarin I think. I'm not quite sure about the actual impact of this. I know that when reciting classic poems, there are some tones that are technically incorrect to the 平仄 format if the words are pronounced in Mandarin (such as "竹"、"合", in Mandarin they are 平, but as checked tones they are 仄) It's like in the pan-Chinese culture circle, everyone has it, besides the official language
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 29, 2018 4:45:33 GMT
very interesting clip! and, oh, the irony about the checked/entering tone being lost only in one dialect--but alas, the global impact! yeah, i don't think the loss of that tone has any impact on everyday usage of the language--as you say, it's more that the aesthetic is lost when reciting old poetry.
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Post by yenchin on Apr 2, 2019 22:41:28 GMT
Inspired by siuyiu 's posting of poetry, I'll also put some in Hokkien over here. Starting with the poems in this post to compare. 《靜夜思》李白 床前明月光, 疑是地上霜。 舉頭望明月, 低頭思故鄉。 《遊子吟》 孟郊 慈母手中線, 遊子身上衣; 臨行密密縫, 意恐遲遲歸。 誰言寸草心, 報得三春暉。 《登鸛雀樓》 王之渙 白日依山盡, 黃河入海流。 欲窮千里目, 更上一層樓。
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Post by yenchin on Apr 2, 2019 22:50:09 GMT
And the poems here《春望》 杜甫 國破山河在, 城春草木深。 感時花濺淚, 恨別鳥驚心。 峰火連三月, 家書抵萬金。 白頭搔更短, 渾欲不勝簪。 《賦得古原草送別》 白居易 離離原上草,一歲一枯榮。 野火燒不盡,春風吹又生。 遠芳侵古道,晴翠接荒城。 又送王孫去,萋萋滿別情。 《虞美人》 李煜 春花秋月何時了,往事知多少? 小樓昨夜又東風, 故國不堪回首月明中! 雕欄玉砌應猶在,只是朱顏改。 問君能有幾多愁? 恰似一江春水向東流。 And I'll also put a song here And I can't help to put the Teresa Teng Mandarin version here.
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Post by siuyiu on Apr 2, 2019 23:34:47 GMT
these are fantastic, yenchin! thanks so much! yes, you can tell that hokkien is closer to the dialect spoken in tang/song times because the rhyme schemes work! the more i listen to it, the more i'm reminded of taishanese--quite a number of overlaps in tonality and pronunciation! it's not close enough that i could follow a hokkien dialogue, but i would definitely be able to understand certain words and phrases. and i absolutely love teresa teng's version of that poem! the hokkien one sounds lovely, too! such soothing melodies!
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Post by yenchin on Apr 3, 2019 10:50:13 GMT
《水調歌頭》,蘇軾 明月幾時有?把酒問青天。不知天上宮闕,今夕是何年? 我欲乘風歸去,又恐瓊樓玉宇,高處不勝寒。 起舞弄清影,何似在人間?
轉朱閣,低綺戶,照無眠。
不應有恨,何事長向別時圓?
人有悲歡離合,月有陰晴圓缺,此事古難全。但願人長久,千里共嬋娟。
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Post by yenchin on Apr 3, 2019 10:57:31 GMT
《金縷衣》 杜秋娘
勸君莫惜金縷衣, 勸君惜取少年時。 花開堪折直須折, 莫待無花空折枝。
《木蘭辭》 佚名
唧唧復唧唧,木蘭當戶織。 不聞機杼聲,唯聞女嘆息。 問女何所思,問女何所憶,女亦無所思,女亦無所憶。 昨夜見軍帖,可汗大點兵。軍書十二卷,卷卷有爺名。阿爺無大兒,木蘭無長兄。願為市鞍馬,從此替爺征。
東市買駿馬,西市買鞍,南市買轡頭,北市買長鞭。 朝辭爺孃去,暮宿黃河邊;不聞爺孃喚女聲,但聞黃河流水鳴濺濺。 旦辭黃河去,暮宿黑山頭;不聞爺孃喚女聲,但聞燕山胡騎聲啾啾。
萬里赴戎機,關山度若飛。朔氣傳金柝,寒光照鐵衣。將軍百戰死,壯士十年歸。 歸來見天子,天子坐明堂。策勳十二轉,賞賜百千強。可汗問所欲,木蘭不用尚書郎,願借明駝千里足,送兒還故鄉。
爺娘聞女來,出郭相扶將;阿姊聞妹來,當戶理紅妝;小弟聞姊來,磨刀霍霍向豬羊。 開我東閣門,坐我西閣床;脫我戰時袍,着我舊時裳;當窗理雲鬢,對鏡帖花黃。 出門見夥伴,夥伴皆驚惶,同行十二年,不知木蘭是女郎。 雄兔腳撲朔,雌兔眼迷離。兩兔傍地走,安能辨我是雄雌?
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Post by yenchin on Apr 3, 2019 11:34:23 GMT
Adding some songs to this thread. This is probably the most insane Taiwanese song I've ever heard in the last three decades. The whole song is based on a folk priest chanting song at rituals,and it was kind of ahead of its time when mainstream Taiwanese Hokkien songs were still Jianghu-ish. The whole video mimics a traditional temple festival,up to having a Tâng-ki(spirit medium) faking(or real?) himself being possessed.
倒退嚕
嘿 拜請 拜請 拜請東海岸西海岸 北嘎投喔紗帽山 鶯歌咧出土炭 草山底咧出溫泉 拜請你咧 東營兵擱囉東營將 西營兵擱囉西營將 北營中營兵中將 起雄兵 這個九千九百九萬千 直直降擱囉剩無零 神咧兵咧喔 神兵啊急急急律令 急急急律令 鳳梨西瓜邊 欠錢不要還 尖嘴的是雞喔 扁嘴的是番鴨 彎彎的是豬肉 四角的是豆乾 白白的是麵線 拜請拜請 大仙个王爺公 小仙个王爺子 我是假影請 你那來我就加了餅嘿 天頂天公 地下母舅公 北海岸十八王公 嗷嗚嗷嗚 拜請拜請咧 拜請拜請 阮後生啊愛著阿琴伊查某子 不知有影也無影 有影就喊三聲喔 無影 無影 無影 皇嘿親嘿喔 皇親啊 四果排佮歸桌頂 紅柿哪芭樂佮龍眼 愛呷就家己揀 三碗兩碗做你排 閹雞古捉來殺 沒錢我不愛 紅包大個做你來 拿嘎來喲 噢 俺公啊對啊阮啊有啊有交代唷 叫阮麻雀粒仔不通黑白排啊 碰啊你得碰 到啊我得到 槓頂開花是多一台唷 噢 牛頭馬面啊二啊將啊軍喔 還有日夜雙遊巡 燒酒排你咧銀啊紙獻喔 阿公啊對人是足啊凊采 行你就行 你就乎伊過橋 草埔仔跑馬仔草青青 草埔仔路上啊草掛墘喔 有孝的媳婦是三頓燒 不孝的媳婦是過路搖 啊過路搖 搖你就搖過橋 喔 獻紙來你嘛燒錢去 獻紙燒錢是為買路去 獻紙來你嘛燒錢去 獻紙燒錢是為買路去 行你就行 走到觀音佛祖廟 喔 拜拜喔 來拜觀音菩薩喔
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2019 4:57:26 GMT
万万感谢! or in Hokkien we say ban ban kam sia yenchin Listening to hokkien always reminds me of my childhood, since my father and grandpa used to speak the language. I could understand a very little bit but can't pronounce it properly. I wonder if you could help me to find a poem of 北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘 pronounced in hokkien. I tried to find it but couldn't find it. My grandpa used to ask me to recite this poem in Hokkien, but now I'm totally forgotten all the hokkien pronunciation Many thanks in advance though!
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