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Post by yenchin on Aug 28, 2018 12:34:18 GMT
Nothing really new here. The main theme of HSDS made me search again for the song and someone posted on Youtube that there were two different versions. According to the comments section, the melody was slightly altered due to it being "too Japanese-ish" and the Government Information Bureau having problems with this.
I also noticed that a talk show dedicated a whole episode discussing Lau Yuk-Pok's death. Which speaks lot about her fame.
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Post by galvatron prime on Aug 28, 2018 14:21:02 GMT
Introduction of Hong Kong Series into TaiwanIn 1982, during the Golden Bell Award (highest honor of Taiwanese Television), two episodes of Chor Lau Heung (楚留香, 1979, TVB) were aired on CTV Taiwan as "selected views". They were highly praised and CTV purchased the series with Mandarin dubbing and was an instant hit with 70% rating. The social effects were strongly felt: When the show was on TV, streets became more empty, taxis stopped picking up passengers. There were a lot of restaurants or tea shops named "Chor Lau Heung" or "Mo Fa". The phenomenom was highly discussed on all media, domestic actors worried about their acting rights, legislators in parliament questioned about the content, and the main theme of CLH also became a popular song for funeral processions. After four months, according to the law, HK dramas had restricted broadcast time, and CLH went from CTV Taiwan to CTS Taiwan. After CLH was The Green Dragon Conspiracy (琥珀青龍, 1982, RTV), which was expected to be a hit due to its suspense and Chiang Tai Wai. However, because there was excessive fighting and a later airing slot (it was broadcasted at 21:30), it had weaker effect. Then there was Young's Female Warrior (楊門女將, 1981, TVB), which made Shek Sau popular in Taiwan, and resulting in the TV stations to purchase The Young Heroes of Shaolin (英雄出少年, 1981, TVB), another Shek Sau drama. Then came The Hawk (飛鷹, 1981, TVB), The Legend of the Unknowns (十三妹, 1983, TVB), Reincarnated (天蠶變 1979, RTV). The popularity of Reincarnated also resulted in The Bastard Swordsman (天蠶變, 1983, Shaw Brothers) having a strong opening but rapid drop in the box office in Taiwan, because at that time Reincarnated was still on air and the movie was quite different from the series. Finally came Demi Gods & Semi Dragons, the only Jin Yong series of that era. In the first weeks of its airing, DGSD scored twice in ratings against a famous variety show, Variety 100 (綜藝100, 1979, CTS) of CTS. Variety 100 was dominating the Sunday night timeslot since 1979 and was finally crushed in competition, marking the beginning of its decline. Around that time a filmmaker invited most of the original cast, substituted Bryan Leung with Norman Chui and filmed Demi Gods and Semi Dragons (1982, New Century Motion Pictures(?)). This film was retitled "Demi Gods and Semi Dragons Grand Finale" in Taiwan, and was released during the Lunar New Year holidays. Shaw Brothers also rushed their Return of the Bastard Swordsman around the same time. At this time, the Taiwanese Actors Association finally had enough, they lobbied complaints to the Government Information Bureau, and finally HK Dramas were banned from television. However, at this time videotapes were still allowed and audiences were still able to watch series from Hong Kong. yenchinSo beside Wuxia ,do Taiwan during that time air popular non Wuxia popular HK drama on TV like Chow Yun Fat The Bund ,The Brothers ,The Shell Game,Good Old Times,Hotel ,The Conflict Tony Leung Police Cadet. Felix Wong The Lonely Hunter,Soldiers Of Fortune,Looking Back In Anger etc
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Post by galvatron prime on Aug 28, 2018 15:20:46 GMT
yenchin Do Taiwan aired Japanese Ninja and Samurai drama on the TV during 1980an .? I remember Malaysia have aired a very popular Japanese Ninja drama The Ninja -Sasuka and it dubbed in Malay,in the VHS it dubbed in Cantonese or Mandarin. TVB also dubbed some Japanese Ninja and Samurai drama in Cantonese ,do Taiwan dubbed Japanese drama in Mandarin ?
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Post by yenchin on Aug 28, 2018 15:32:28 GMT
galvatron prime Only the 8 series I listed were aired. The three tv stations could only take turns showing HK series every four months, so their choices were kind of focused on Wuxia to follow the popularity of CLH. Japanese drama was also banned. Only anime was aired. A station did try to introduce The Bund, and Shaw Brothers even condensed the series into a two hour movie to be shown in Taiwan, unfortunately, neither of them could pass the censors at the Government Information Bureau. They felt that gangsters shooting each other was bad for the society. So basically besides the ones I listed, everything else was either rented videotapes, or some underground cable TV. The foreign drama ban was lifted in the early 90s I think because I remember watching The Blood Sword and another station aired twenty minutes of Taichi Master each day as a filler show I guess (very annoying, it made the series extremely dull to watch)
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Post by reinafu on Aug 28, 2018 17:44:24 GMT
galvatron prime Only the 8 series I listed were aired. The three tv stations could only take turns showing HK series every four months, so their choices were kind of focused on Wuxia to follow the popularity of CLH. Japanese drama was also banned. Only anime was aired. A station did try to introduce The Bund, and Shaw Brothers even condensed the series into a two hour movie to be shown in Taiwan, unfortunately, neither of them could pass the censors at the Government Information Bureau. They felt that gangsters shooting each other was bad for the society. So basically besides the ones I listed, everything else was either rented videotapes, or some underground cable TV. The foreign drama ban was lifted in the early 90s I think because I remember watching The Blood Sword and another station aired twenty minutes of Taichi Master each day as a filler show I guess (very annoying, it made the series extremely dull to watch) 1) Why the song of Chu Liu Xiang was heavily criticized as you mentioned in one of your posts ?
2) What is the name of the 2 hours movies the Shaw brothers did to condense The Bund in order to show it ?
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Post by yenchin on Aug 29, 2018 5:51:06 GMT
A station did try to introduce The Bund, and Shaw Brothers even condensed the series into a two hour movie to be shown in Taiwan, unfortunately, neither of them could pass the censors at the Government Information Bureau. They felt that gangsters shooting each other was bad for the society. 1) Why the song of Chu Liu Xiang was heavily criticized as you mentioned in one of your posts ?
2) What is the name of the 2 hours movies the Shaw brothers did to condense The Bund in order to show it ?
1. The Mandarin version totally misses the feeling found in the Cantonese version. 2. It's called "The Bund: Storm over Shanghai" in English. The Chinese title is 上海灘:血灑租界 hkmdb.com/db/movies/view.mhtml?id=6442&display_set=engAccording to the article I'm reading, it was a failure in Hong Kong, probably because basically everyone already watched the series and it premiered on a not so ideal date. So it was in the theatres for only a week.
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Post by yenchin on Aug 29, 2018 9:17:38 GMT
Pt III Taiwanese Local Productions and Taiwanese Made Hong Kong Dramas (2)
After the Lunar New Year in 1985, TTV aired Mighty Weapon (江湖夜雨十年燈, 1985, TTV, the English title is from some video on Youtube, probably an export), based on the novel of the same name by Zhuge Qingyun, starring Norman Chui, Cecila Wong, Shek Sau, and Stephen Tung Wai. CTV was airing the first story of The Legend of Chu Liuxiang (楚留香新傳, 1985, CTV), starring Adam Cheng and set after the TVB Chor Lau Heung series, it was popular and CTV shifted its time slot for Zhou You's new series, Shen Zhou Xia Lu (神州俠侶, 1985, CTV), which was based on Liang Yu Sheng's White Haired Demoness. The reasoning of this move was Chor Lau Heung + Adam Cheng was instant win anyways, so CTV let Zhou You "receive" the audience of the show for hers. Zhou You, determined to win back the ratings, reunited Angela Pan and Meng Fei for her series. Angela Pan was acting as a fairy-goddess-like heroine, while Meng Fei was a hot-blooded hero, just like their roles in ROCH. The show's title was also kind of not-so-subtle: Shen Zhou Xia Lu, which was only one character different from ROCH, Shen DIAO Xia Lu. But anyways the audience bought it, and the show had high ratings. CTS at the same time was airing Romantic Sword (名劍風流, 1985, CTS), another Gu Long adaption. It started well initially, but halfways the main actress, Chen Lili, suddenly resigned and the show lost its audience.
TTV asked Chen Ming Hua to film another series to challenge Zhou You, named Gu Jian En Chou Lu (孤劍恩仇錄, 1985, TTV, literally, Grace and Enmity of the Lone Sword) starring Roy Liu, but it was unable to compete, either. As one can see, this title is also suspiciously similar to The Book and the Sword, "SHU" Jian En Chou Ji, plus, the plot itself is known to be similar to Jin Yong's Flying Fox novels.
Earlier this year, Xiao Ao Jiang Hu (笑傲江湖, 1985, TTV) was aired. This was the first Jin Yong novel series on the weekday 20:00 time slot. It was produced by Yang Peipei and starred Bryan Leung, Leanne Liu, and Ying Tsai-Ling. While the series was filming some exterior scenes, bystanders "corrected' the crew that the series title should be Ao Xiao Jiang Hu (傲嘯江湖, 1985, CTV). On the other hand, while Ao Xiao Jiang Hu was having a screening, they ordered some food and it was sent to TTV because the caterer confused the two series.
The story behind Ao Xiao Jiang Hu is that originally it was titled Pi Li Lei Ting (霹靂雷霆, Thunderstrike), but because there were two main characters in it called Linghu Xiao, and Sima Ao, so it was changed to Ao Xiao Jiang Hu (and not Xiao Ao Jiang Hu to be too blatant). Leanne Liu herself wasn't quite pleased with Ao Xiao Jiang Hu's plot, and mentioned that she didn't know what she was filming at the time. The series didn't do well either.
Zhou You would later on to produce Fei Yen Jing Long* (飛燕驚龍, 1985, CTV), starring Derek Yee Tung Sing and Shih Szu, and following her production formula of special effect heavy fighting and beautiful cast. This series was exported to Korea in 1987 and it was also an instant hit.
*This is the title of Mythical Crane, Magical Needle in Taiwan
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Post by yenchin on Aug 29, 2018 9:38:42 GMT
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Post by siuyiu on Aug 30, 2018 1:02:39 GMT
ok, finally got a chance to read through your excellent thread, yenchin ! thanks again for the great info! some random thoughts: 1. in your research, did you come across the reason why they switched from taiwanese to mandarin re: themesongs and (presumably) spoken dialogue? was this just a reflection of societal changes or another reason? 2. Lau Yuk-Pok looks mixed. and from the clips you shared, she does look like a brilliant zhao min. 3. i'm quite surprised that they managed to keep majority of the original lyrics for the imported HK series. of course, the rhyme scheme is completely messed up as a result, but really, i expected bigger changes in the words. 4. of the original taiwan production themesongs, the one for fei yen jing long is still my favourite, but i quite like the one for yi tian. 5. ahaha, some familiar faces re: HK actors who starred in taiwan productions 6. the chinese are quite clever about seizing opportunities re: similarity of titles to popular JY works 7. from what i can tell, the wives of wei xiaobao in the taiwan production are way prettier than the tony leung tvb version 8. do you have a favourite taiwan wuxia production?
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Post by yenchin on Aug 30, 2018 9:04:45 GMT
siuyiu, The Taiwanese language was suppressed by the government after WWII, and the policy became extremely strict in the later half of the 70s (probably because the government was removed from the UN and the following series of diplomatic failures). Shows using the language had limited time on television and were restricted to inconsecutive 30 minute time blocks each day. The number of Taiwanese songs on television each day were also limited. I guess this affected the content and talent a lot. In the 80s the only Taiwanese shows I could remember were either puppet shows (I guess part of the Wuxia talent went there), simple variety shows, some comedy, and Taiwanese opera (probably the other part of Wuxia talent went there). The Taiwanese version of The Roving Swordsman is still my favorite local Wuxia show. Chang Chen-Huan was so badass in it and the series was full of suspense.
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Post by siuyiu on Aug 31, 2018 0:36:29 GMT
yenchin horrible! it's a danger that canto is facing right now. even in HK, a lot of primary schools are using mandarin as the dialect that teachers teach with and students must learn in. any chance the ban on the taiwanese language will be lifted?
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Post by galvatron prime on Aug 31, 2018 6:47:23 GMT
galvatron prime Only the 8 series I listed were aired. The three tv stations could only take turns showing HK series every four months, so their choices were kind of focused on Wuxia to follow the popularity of CLH. Japanese drama was also banned. Only anime was aired. A station did try to introduce The Bund, and Shaw Brothers even condensed the series into a two hour movie to be shown in Taiwan, unfortunately, neither of them could pass the censors at the Government Information Bureau. They felt that gangsters shooting each other was bad for the society. So basically besides the ones I listed, everything else was either rented videotapes, or some underground cable TV. The foreign drama ban was lifted in the early 90s I think because I remember watching The Blood Sword and another station aired twenty minutes of Taichi Master each day as a filler show I guess (very annoying, it made the series extremely dull to watch) yenchin What about American drama ? Do Taiwan air popular American TV drama like MacGyver, The A-Team ,Mission Impossible,Knight Raider,The Green Hornet,Tour Of Duty etc. Since American is Taiwan ally to contain against mainland China ,Do Taiwan air American drama and dubbed in Mandarin? Do Taiwan have English channel if the American drama not dubbed?
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Post by yenchin on Aug 31, 2018 15:29:18 GMT
yenchin horrible! it's a danger that canto is facing right now. even in HK, a lot of primary schools are using mandarin as the dialect that teachers teach with and students must learn in. any chance the ban on the taiwanese language will be lifted? Yes, I've been watching what they've been doing in HK. Very similar to what happened in Taiwan. In a few years probably grandparents can't help but switch to mandarin every time they talk to their children, hopefully not! The Taiwanese language ban was lifted probably after the martial law ended in 1989. The damage can still be felt today. Grandparents switch to Mandarin when talking to children, a lot of people still don't know that Taiwanese can be written, either in plain Chinese characters or Romanized characters, and regard it as merely a dialect of Mandarin. And once in awhile some famous person makes some negative comment about the language (e.g. "Gangster talk.") And that's just Taiwanese Hokkien. There's also the Hakka, the aboriginals...etc which are either dwindling in numbers or already a minority, and have fewer resources for preservation.
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Post by yenchin on Aug 31, 2018 16:14:45 GMT
galvatron prime Only the 8 series I listed were aired. The three tv stations could only take turns showing HK series every four months, so their choices were kind of focused on Wuxia to follow the popularity of CLH. Japanese drama was also banned. Only anime was aired. A station did try to introduce The Bund, and Shaw Brothers even condensed the series into a two hour movie to be shown in Taiwan, unfortunately, neither of them could pass the censors at the Government Information Bureau. They felt that gangsters shooting each other was bad for the society. So basically besides the ones I listed, everything else was either rented videotapes, or some underground cable TV. The foreign drama ban was lifted in the early 90s I think because I remember watching The Blood Sword and another station aired twenty minutes of Taichi Master each day as a filler show I guess (very annoying, it made the series extremely dull to watch) yenchin What about American drama ? Do Taiwan air popular American TV drama like MacGyver, The A-Team ,Mission Impossible,Knight Raider,The Green Hornet,Tour Of Duty etc. Since American is Taiwan ally to contain against mainland China ,Do Taiwan air American drama and dubbed in Mandarin? Do Taiwan have English channel if the American drama not dubbed? All of the series you mentioned were dubbed and aired. American drama wasn't banned. Currently I can't understand why (maybe the "impact" of white people doing stuff was considered lower?) The 80s was full of series from the US on Taiwanese TV, and I think most of them, at least the ones aired in popular time slots, were dubbed by some people who understood how to make something localized. Sometimes sensitive content was totally overhauled, such as the "Jade Dragon" episode in Macgyver where the PRC are the exhibitors. It was changed into Japanese exhibitors. In the late 90s the dubbing became fewer, nowadays occasionally, and it sounds so unnatural I don't know why. Here's a good examplef the 80s, the opening of The A-Team. TTV made up their own title and their own nicknames, the narration is totally different from the original version (the whole description is really a big "f-you" to authorities and definitely not pass the censors), and some extra narration is added.
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Post by siuyiu on Sept 1, 2018 20:08:48 GMT
yenchin horrible! it's a danger that canto is facing right now. even in HK, a lot of primary schools are using mandarin as the dialect that teachers teach with and students must learn in. any chance the ban on the taiwanese language will be lifted? Yes, I've been watching what they've been doing in HK. Very similar to what happened in Taiwan. In a few years probably grandparents can't help but switch to mandarin every time they talk to their children, hopefully not! The Taiwanese language ban was lifted probably after the martial law ended in 1989. The damage can still be felt today. Grandparents switch to Mandarin when talking to children, a lot of people still don't know that Taiwanese can be written, either in plain Chinese characters or Romanized characters, and regard it as merely a dialect of Mandarin. And once in awhile some famous person makes some negative comment about the language (e.g. "Gangster talk.") And that's just Taiwanese Hokkien. There's also the Hakka, the aboriginals...etc which are either dwindling in numbers or already a minority, and have fewer resources for preservation. i'm glad the ban is lifted, at least. but as you say, it may be a bit too late. for sure a whole generation has been under-educated in hokkien, and hakka, and other "native", non-mando dialects, which is a real shame. while i feel that sometimes, silly traditions based on silly superstitions and sexist/racist attitudes are best gotten rid of, there are other "tribal" cultures that should not only be preserved but celebrated! my dad's family originate from the taishan region; that is a dying dialect, for sure, but more significantly, their traditional folksongs are practically unknown by the new generations. i remember asking my gran in her latter years about the songs she knew as a kid, and she didn't remember them anymore. i can only remember snippets of the children's songs she used to sing to me. i'm guessing that you are fluent (or at least fluent enough) in hokkien. hope you keep it up! i know that the hakka-americans are trying to preserve their dialect with dedicated "hakka days" to educate and promote--saw YT vids; it's kind of like how canto-speakers are trying to preserved canto using YT vids to educate the young'uns. i think it's great! we need more of these!
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