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Post by siuyiu on Nov 30, 2018 3:24:24 GMT
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Post by Admin on Nov 30, 2018 5:42:06 GMT
I read it in Indonesian language many years ago. I actually I don't really understand the beauty of this novel. But those who read it in Chinese, they all said that the Dream of the Red Chamber is the best among the 4 classics novels.
Story wise, it's a typical "Chinese family" problem and conflicts.
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Post by reinafu on Nov 30, 2018 11:41:41 GMT
When I was 16, my French teacher had told us to read this book because it was an excellent one, but, well...I'm not from a rich family and the book was awfully pricey, so, I never had the luck to read it at that time. Now that I work since years, I bought it one or two years ago, but...I'm so busy that I still haven't had time to read it !!!  What are the other classics you mention, please ? |
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Post by siuyiu on Dec 1, 2018 1:41:57 GMT
What are the other classics you mention, please ? should be referring to water margin, romance of the 3 kingdoms, and journey to the west as the other 3/4 of the list. |
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Post by yenchin on Dec 1, 2018 9:58:28 GMT
Contents from a chapter was included in my high school Chinese textbook. Beyond that, I haven't even touched the book due to a lot of people saying snobbish stuff like "If you haven't lived a life, you won't understand this book..." or something like that. Naive, I was then. And unfortunately now it's not even quite on my "Read Someday" list.
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Post by siuyiu on Dec 1, 2018 18:37:18 GMT
i HATE the snotty literature "experts" who like to condescend to everyone else! based on the english translation, i can admire the novel for its indepth look at the time in which it was set--a real snapshot of the culture, the daily life, the politics, etc. but because i can't read the original, i'm not able to comment on the writing style. it's a pity.
i have been told by family who have read it multiple times that the author (the original one, not the one who took over, wrote the ending, and basically screwed up the plot--like ni kuang did to the newspaper version of TLBB) was a pessimist, and that is very obvious throughout the text. and, well, given that the story was supposed to end in tragedy, it's consistent with the author's view of life. the ending as it is officially known is not happy, per se, but the author did intend it to be way more tragic.
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Post by reinafu on Dec 1, 2018 19:16:18 GMT
i HATE the snotty literature "experts" who like to condescend to everyone else! based on the english translation, i can admire the novel for its indepth look at the time in which it was set--a real snapshot of the culture, the daily life, the politics, etc. but because i can't read the original, i'm not able to comment on the writing style. it's a pity. i have been told by family who have read it multiple times that the author (the original one, not the one who took over, wrote the ending, and basically screwed up the plot--like ni kuang did to the newspaper version of TLBB) was a pessimist, and that is very obvious throughout the text. and, well, given that the story was supposed to end in tragedy, it's consistent with the author's view of life. the ending as it is officially known is not happy, per se, but the author did intend it to be way more tragic. There are two authors ??!!
The one I have is written by Cao Xueqin : isn't it the original author ?
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Post by siuyiu on Dec 1, 2018 19:26:25 GMT
cao xueqin is the original author. however, he died in the process of revising his draft, and the last several chapters also went missing at the time (later to be discovered in various places, kept (and often in horrible condition) by the descendants of the friends and family who "borrowed" his drafts to read and never returned them), so another author called gao e stepped in to write the ending. but he changed it to a much happier one than was intended.
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Post by Admin on Dec 3, 2018 3:56:15 GMT
The story is about the fallen of Jia family. From a powerful rich family then they fall apart. As tragic as it is, actually the story was kind of inspired by Cao Xueqin's own family.
I have bought the novel in Chinese a year ago. but haven't read it, cause I tend to like heroic theme (such as Water Margin or Romance of the Three Kingdoms) rather than this kind of genre.
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Post by chefying on Dec 5, 2018 14:37:42 GMT
I read an abbreviated English translation of the book when I was 15 year old. Reading it, I felt indignant that certain things were done that way, customs being upheld, certain characters' behaviour was high handed, etc.
When I was 35 years old, I re-read that same book, and I started sympathising with certain characters which I used to despise.
Was it me growing more matured, or is it more like that I had faced sufficient hardship to understand the strained circumstances faced by the characters?
Perhaps it is both.
In short, such is the richness of this story.
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Post by kyc on Dec 6, 2018 3:21:48 GMT
Maybe I can say something... I am a HUGE fan of this book and the 1987 mainland TV series based on this novel. I collect memorabilia of the TV series, including its soundtrack.  For an incomplete novel to be called China's greatest takes something... and Hong Lou Meng is more than "something." It contains the best portrayal of females I have ever encountered in all literature, Western or Chinese. It's a big claim, but I stand by it... though it's not that I have read lots of novels... I have read the Chinese original once and the David Hawkes translation once. I have gone back to episodes of the book, now and then, if I remember a scene... The magic trio of Xue Baochai, Lin Daiyu and Shi Xiangyun is exceptionally delineated, but even more so the myriad of other female characters in the book. You may not like Jia Baoyu, but I daresay he will grow on you. For many, you feel as though you are in a very large, extended family when you experience the book. If you really want to experience Hong Lou Meng and cannot read Chinese, do yourself a favor and get the David Hawkes translation (5 volumes, Penguin, also available in a dual Chinese-English edition published by China's Foreign Language Press). It's a master class in translation. Maybe not perfect because the original Chinese is so rich, but it does exceptionally well, better than I could have imagined it done in English. The Yangs translation, which I also own, is less adept in my opinion. |
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Post by Admin on Dec 6, 2018 3:54:52 GMT
Maybe I can say something... I am a HUGE fan of this book and the 1987 mainland TV series based on this novel. I collect memorabilia of the TV series, including its soundtrack. For an incomplete novel to be called China's greatest takes something... and Hong Lou Meng is more than "something." It contains the best portrayal of females I have ever encountered in all literature, Western or Chinese. It's a big claim, but I stand by it... though it's not that I have read lots of novels... I have read the Chinese original once and the David Hawkes translation once. I have gone back to episodes of the book, now and then, if I remember a scene... The magic trio of Xue Baochai, Lin Daiyu and Shi Xiangyun is exceptionally delineated, but even more so the myriad of other female characters in the book. You may not like Jia Baoyu, but I daresay he will grow on you. For many, you feel as though you are in a very large, extended family when you experience the book. If you really want to experience Hong Lou Meng and cannot read Chinese, do yourself a favor and get the David Hawkes translation (5 volumes, Penguin, also available in a dual Chinese-English edition published by China's Foreign Language Press). It's a master class in translation. Maybe not perfect because the original Chinese is so rich, but it does exceptionally well, better than I could have imagined it done in English. The Yangs translation, which I also own, is less adept in my opinion. Yes, in China people still talking about the 1987 version. I will try to watch it as you also recommend it. I watched the 2010 adaptation, and I couldn't stand it. Although the actor for young Jia Baoyu is pretty cute, and that's exactly I would imagine how he looked like. but then the hairstyle was really odd, like kunqu opera style. and also the background music is VERY odd. can't imagine they used a kind of gregorian chanting for the background music. just imagine...hong lou meng...with the chinese setting, but the background song is : allu allu...alleluia........    |
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Post by kyc on Dec 6, 2018 4:06:30 GMT
Maybe I can say something... I am a HUGE fan of this book and the 1987 mainland TV series based on this novel. I collect memorabilia of the TV series, including its soundtrack. For an incomplete novel to be called China's greatest takes something... and Hong Lou Meng is more than "something." It contains the best portrayal of females I have ever encountered in all literature, Western or Chinese. It's a big claim, but I stand by it... though it's not that I have read lots of novels... I have read the Chinese original once and the David Hawkes translation once. I have gone back to episodes of the book, now and then, if I remember a scene... The magic trio of Xue Baochai, Lin Daiyu and Shi Xiangyun is exceptionally delineated, but even more so the myriad of other female characters in the book. You may not like Jia Baoyu, but I daresay he will grow on you. For many, you feel as though you are in a very large, extended family when you experience the book. If you really want to experience Hong Lou Meng and cannot read Chinese, do yourself a favor and get the David Hawkes translation (5 volumes, Penguin, also available in a dual Chinese-English edition published by China's Foreign Language Press). It's a master class in translation. Maybe not perfect because the original Chinese is so rich, but it does exceptionally well, better than I could have imagined it done in English. The Yangs translation, which I also own, is less adept in my opinion. Yes, in China people still talking about the 1987 version. I will try to watch it as you also recommend it. I watched the 2010 adaptation, and I couldn't stand it. Although the actor for young Jia Baoyu is pretty cute, and that's exactly I would imagine how he looked like. but then the hairstyle was really odd, like kunqu opera style. and also the background music is VERY odd. can't imagine they used a kind of gregorian chanting for the background music. just imagine...hong lou meng...with the chinese setting, but the background song is : allu allu...alleluia........ Ha ha. 🤣 I didn't like the 2010 adaptation either, but I sympathize with the director because she has to deal with so much pressure. She should have known though... I bought this version of David Hawkes' translation. The paper is at least acid-free (a bit like good photocopying paper), will not yellow as badly as a Penguin paperback. en.people.cn/n3/2017/0906/c90000-9265479.htmlThe other three in the series are worth a look too. EDIT: Don't buy the hardcover editions, they are VERY expensive. For most mortals, the paperback version will do well enough. |
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Post by siuyiu on Dec 6, 2018 4:30:59 GMT
kyc i couldn't remember who the translator is for the version i read--i checked, and it's hawkes. good to know from someone whose read the translation and the original that hawkes did a decent job. it's hard to tell with translations if you don't have the ability to compare. i'm sure the writing loses a bit of style and poetry when translated because there are some things that just don't translate well. nuances, especially. puns. i've only ever watched the 1987 version, so i can't comment on the others.
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Post by reinafu on Dec 6, 2018 10:20:17 GMT
Where these bilingual books can be bought ? I only know one site selling bilingual books, but these ones don't appear in their store. I only found there the books Seven knights and five gallants and some poetry form Li Bai and others that were in both Chinese and English language.
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