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Post by chefying on Mar 8, 2015 9:38:31 GMT
I would say that Liu Bei is just a politician. He's not a righteous person like what some people always think he is. He's an opportunist and cunning to a certain degree. Although he kinda betrayed Lv Bu, but personally I'm glad that he didn't save Lv Bu. Lv Bu is such a 小人. He deserved to be executed. I had a discussion on this with justlooking on this matter over the New Year. I tend to agree with you, Admin. My point had always been this - Liu Bei said he is fighting for the Royal House of Han. What would happen if Liu Bei won and reunited China. What would he do when it happens? Hand the country over to the Emperor? Can the Emperor handle the running of the country? Who would be Prime Minister? What would happen to Liu Bei? - what would he then go on to do? Not sell straw shoes, I bet. What if the governance is not according to Liu Bei's liking? Another topic of discussion was Zhuge Liang. We have not come to his part yet in our story. Smart as Zhuge Liang is, why did he not join CaoCao and stuck himself to the underdog, Liu Bei? After all, Zhuge Liang predicted that even with the best of help, all Liu Bei could ever hope for was 1/3 of China. In that case, what is the real purpose of Zhuge Liang coming out to be Liu Bei's military adviser? Why not join CaoCao since he was stronger than Liu Bei? Would CaoCao be willing to accept Zhuge Liang as his adviser? (This was put forward by my mother). It was a lively discussion. |
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Post by chefying on Mar 8, 2015 10:05:53 GMT
Chapter 21 At the end of the last chapter, Yuan Shu’s dreams of making himself Emperor had been dashed by an alliance of CaoCao, Lui Bei, Lv Bu and Sun Ce. For his efforts in the defeat of Yuan Shu, the Emperor bestowed Sun Ce with the title Marquis of Wu ahnd Sun Ce retired back to the Southland. CaoCao managed prevent Zhang Xiu and Liu Biao from attacking the capital Xudu and the Imperial family and the two went back to their respective strongholds. CaoCao with the help of Liu Bei, attacked, captured and executed Lv Bu. Liu Bei had been proclaimed Imperial Uncle. Despite Lv Bu’s death and thus releasing XuZhou, CaoCao had his general guard over XuZhou while Liu Bei remained in the capital of Xudu. A plot by the Emperor to rally the dukes to depose CaoCao had been discovered. With thus our story continues…. Liu Bei was one of the members of the Emperor’s plot to overthrow CaoCao, and he was fearful CaoCao might have bean suspecting Liu Bei as a rebel. To allay CaoCao’s fears, Liu Bei did nothing and instead, started to plant a vegetable garden. Once day, CaoCao invited Liu Bei to his house to have a drink and enjoy the plum blossoms. CaoCao said he was partial to plum because of an incident which CaoCao began to narrate. (This bit I adapted from C.H. Brewitt-Taylor translation of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms – to lazy to rewrite it.) “We were marching though a parched district and every one was suffering from thirst. Suddenly I lifted my (horse)whip and pointing at something in the distance, I said, “Look at those plum trees.” The soldiers heard it and made their mouths water.” In this manner, CaoCao temporarily quenched his soldiers’ need for water. This is the incident alluded to in the proverb, wang mei zhi ke 望梅止渴. This proverb now meana to “deceive and satisfy one’s needs by dreaming of one’s desires.” CaoCao then asked Liu Bei who in the present day serves to be recognized as a hero. Liu Bei proposed quite a few persons, but they were all not to CaoCao’s specification. CaoCao then said, “The only heroes in this world are you and I.” This is how the 2010 China TV series depicted this event. It is a bit long, but I liked this part. It revealed each person's character.
Liu Bei, still vary of CaoCao’s suspicion of Liu Bei’s involvement in the Emperor’s plot to depose CaoCao, was scared out of his wits, so much so that Liu Bei dropped his chopsticks. At this moment, there was a peal of thunder, which Liu Bei used as an excuse for his apparent clumsiness. |
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Post by chefying on Mar 8, 2015 10:08:44 GMT
Soon, a messenger appeared to report that Gongsun Zhan had been defeated by Yuan Shao. With the defeat of Liu Bei’s former patron, Gongsun Zhan, Yuan Shao is now much stronger. There was news too of Yuan Shao’s cousin, Yuan Shu. Yuan Shu had his dreams of becoming an Emperor dashed by an alliance of CaoCao, Lui Bei, Lv Bu and Sun Ce’s forces. Yuan Shu had said he would yield his title of Emperor to his cousin, Yuan Shou. Yuan Shou agreed on one condition – the Imperial Seal had to be delivered personally by Yuan Shu to Yuan Shao. When the two cousins meet and join their forces, Yuan Shao’s strength will be further increased. Liu Bei observed to CaoCao that it would be necessary for Yuan Shu to cross XuZhou (yes, Liu Bei’s old haunt of XuZhou, in which his wives and family are living). Liu Bei asked for an army to counter Yuan Shu. CaoCao agreed, and the next day, the Emperor officially approved this action, and CaoCao had two of CaoCao’s generals join the expedition. Liu Bei and his brothers departed immediately, for fear of CaoCao changing his mind. When CaoCao’s advisers found out about Liu Bei’s army and expedition, they were horrified, and commented (credit: adapted from C.H. Brewitt-Taylor translation) “You have allowed the dragon to reach the sea, the tiger to return to the mountains. What control do you have (over Liu Bei) in the future?” The phrase “to allow the tiger to return to the mountains” 纵虎归山 is now a Chinese proverb, meaning to allow an opponent to return to his powerbase. This was how the 2010 Mainland China Romance of the Three Kingdoms portrayed this scene.
Meanwhile, Liu Bei managed to intercept Yuan Shu, and Yuan Shu was defeated. Yuan Shu and the remnants of his followers retreated to a small town, with little military provisions with them. Yuan Shu was not used to the coarse food that the cook was able to provide, and asked for some honey-water to quench his thirst. The cook replied that the only water he has is actually tainted by blood, no honey-water is available. Upon hearing that reply, Yuan Shu cried out in anguish, rolled on the floor and died. Yuan Shu’s nephew then took Yuan Shu’s wife and children to seek shelter in a small city. The governor of the city had them all killed, and found the Imperial Seal. The governor then personally took the seal to CaoCao in the Capital, and was rewarded for his efforts. When Liu Bei heard of Yuan Shu’s death, and prepared a report to CaoCao, and instructed CaoCao’s two generals to deliver the report to CaoCao. By doing so, he had removed CaoCao’s influence from his army. Yuan Shu had been eliminated. Liu Bei’s army was still dressed in CaoCao’s army uniform. By trickery, Liu Bei managed to enter XuZhou and then killed CaoCao’s general left behind to guard XuZhou. In this manner, Liu Bei regained XuZhou for himself, and waited to reap the wrath of CaoCao. And so, at the end of this chapter, Yuan Shu had died, along with his dreams of making himself Emperor. While Yuan Shao was busy attacking Gongsun Zan, CaoCao with the help of Liu Bei, attacked, captured and executed Lv Bu. Liu Bei had been proclaimed Imperial Uncle, and a plot by the Emperor to rally the dukes to depose CaoCao had been discovered. Yuan Shao had defeated Gongsun Zhan, and had increased his power. By means of a ruse, Liu Bei had managed to snatch XuZhou from CaoCao’s control, while CaoCao remained in the Capital. The Emperor bestowed Sun Ce with the title Marquis of Wu and Sun Ce retired back to the Southland. |
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Post by chefying on Mar 8, 2015 10:10:48 GMT
The 2010 Mainland China TV series Romance of the Three Kingdoms portrayal of the death of Yuan Shu quite differently from my book.
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Post by chefying on Mar 13, 2015 10:55:40 GMT
A quick re-cap; Liu Bei was invited to run XuZhou by its aging governor. Lv Bu snatched XuZhou from Liu Bei’s hands. Upon the defeat of Lv Bu by the combined forces of Liu Bei, CaoCao and Sun Ce, XuZhou was left to be managed by two of CaoCao’s generals – Liu Bei went with CaoCao to the Capital to seek an audience with the Emperor. The Emperor (by CaoCao’s grace, of course) sent Liu Bei with an army to eliminate the self appointed Emperor, Yuan Shu. After eliminating Yuan Shu, Liu Bei “borrowed” this army to regain his XuZhou. This was how the 2010 Mainland China Romance of the Three Kingdoms portrayed CaoCao’s reaction to the news of the loss of Xuzhou to Liu Bie.
In this depiction, the seal was handed to CaoCao by the two generals. In the book, this was not so. Also, it ended with CaoCao being sick with a bad headache. In the book CaoCao suffered from a toothache at this point, but CaoCao did have a tumour in his head, which caused his headaches. |
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Post by chefying on Mar 13, 2015 11:00:56 GMT
Chapter 22 At the end of the previous chapter, Yuan Shu had died and so has Lv Bu. While Yuan Shao defeated Gongsun Zan, and Gongsun Zan died. Liu Bei had been proclaimed Imperial Uncle, and a plot by the Emperor to rally the dukes to depose CaoCao had been discovered. By means of a ruse, Liu Bei had managed to snatch XuZhou from CaoCao’s control, while CaoCao remained in the Capital. The Emperor bestowed Sun Ce with the title Marquis of Wu and Sun Ce retired back to the Southland. And now on with the story in Chapter 22… Having stolen XuZhou from CaoCao, Liu Bie expected to be attacked by CaoCao. To this end, he sought the help of Yuan Shuo – yes, the cousin of the pretender to the throne recently defeated by Liu Bie. Yuan Shao’s forces were formidable, and CaoCao had always been vary of Yuan Shao sneaking an attack on the capital while CaoCao was away. Yuan Shao then debated with his advisors whether to join forces with Liu Bei to attack CaoCao. The 2010 Mainland China Romance of the Three Kingdoms portrayed this scene beautifully. I loved the argument, especially who needs peace the most.
Meanwhile, CaoCao sent out an army lead by two generals to attack Liu Bie. However, this was a feint – they were not to launch an all out attack until CaoCao is able to eliminate Yuan Shao. So CaoCao’s army lead by the two generals faced each other for two months without a major clash. Finally, in separate incidents, Zhang Fei defeated on general, while Guan Yu defeated the other. Both generals were not killed, but were allowed to lead their men back to CaoCao with the news of their defeat. With this humiliation, the sworn brothers know that CaoCao will now definitely send an expedition to defeat Liu Bei. As a safety measure, Liu Bei’s two wives went with Guan Yu to Xia Bei 下邳 City, Liu Bei and Zhang Fei left to guard XiaoPei 小沛. XuZhou itself was guarded by four of Liu Bei’s generals. The chapter ends here. Most of the contents in chapter 22 were about the debate on whether to fight or not to fight. |
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Post by chefying on Mar 23, 2015 14:38:53 GMT
Chapter 23 Much of Chapter 23 involved in CaoCao uncovering the people behind the rebel plot endorsed by the Emperor. Chapter 24 Continuing from Chapter 23, Chapter 24 starts with CaoCao eliminating, among others, the State Uncle, who was one of the plotters. Repeating what was posted previously here, “The Emperor now has an Imperial Uncle on his side. The State Uncle General Tung Cheng was enlisted to organize a coup to rid the Throne of CaoCao, but the plot was discovered by CaoCao. The five conspirators, with every single member of their family, totaling at least 700, were executed (Chapter 24). CaoCao had the Tung Cheng’s daughter, Honourable Concubine, strangled as well despite her being 5 months pregnant with the Emperor’s baby.” This was how the murder of the Honourable Concubine was depicted in the 2010 Romance of the Three Kingdoms. The Emperor tried to delay the inevitable by pleading for CaoCao to wait until the birth of the baby before she was executed, but CaoCao refused, stating that it is unwise to leave a descendant to seek revenge (on CaoCao more than the Emperor, I feel).
After clearing up the rebels, CaoCao turned his attention to Liu Bei and the recovery of XuZhou from Liu Bei's clutches. |
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Post by chefying on Apr 17, 2015 16:09:54 GMT
Continuing on....
After clearing up the rebels, CaoCao turned his attention to Liu Bei and the recovery of XuZhou from Liu Bei's clutches.
Knowing that CaoCao will come after him, Liu Bei sent a letter to Yuan Shao requesting for a joint military action agains CaoCao. However, Yuan Shao’s favourite child was sick so Yuan Shao refused to join forces with Liu Bei.
At this point in time, Guan Yu was guarding Xia Bei 下邳 City, while Liu Bei and Zhang Fei guarded XiaoPei 小沛. XuZhou itself was guarded by four of Liu Bei’s generals
With CaoCao’s army approaching, Zhang Fei suggested a night raid on CaoCao’s approaching army. Liu Bei agreed, and that night they set off. However, CaoCao had expected this move, and set a trap. When Liu Bei and Zhang Fei arrived at CaoCao’s camp, the trap was sprung and Liu Bie and Zhang Fei had to fight for their lives.
During the battle, Zhang Fei was separated from Liu Bei. Liu Bei found himself in the losing end, so he headed towards his stronghold, XiaoPei 小沛, only to find it in flames. Liu Bei had no choice but to head elsewhere with the remnants of this troops. Eventually, he ended up in Yuan Shao’s camp. Yuan Shao warmly accepted Liu Bei and so Liu Bei now served Yuan Shao.
CaoCao, having captured XiaoPei 小沛, went on to capture the prized XuZhou. And having captured XuZhou, CaoCao set his eyes on Xia Bei 下邳 City in which lived Liu Bei’s two wives and guarded by Guan Yu.
CaoCao’s advisors recommended the taking of XiaBei immediately before Yuan Shao takes it. However, CaoCao was aware that Guan Yu would defend the city to his death, especially when Liu Bei’s two wives were under his protection. CaoCao liked Guan Yu, and was not willing to take it by force, preferring to win over Guan Yu instead.
It is at this point that the chapter ends.
At the end this chapter, Sun Ce had retired back to the Southland after the Emperor bestowed Sun Ce with the title Marquis of Wu.
Yuan Shu had died and so has Lv Bu. Meanwhile Yuan Shao defeated Gongsun Zan, and Gongsun Zan died. This leaves Liu Bei and Yuan Shao as the strongest of CaoCao’s threats close to home.
Liu Bei had been proclaimed Imperial Uncle, and a plot by the Emperor to rally the dukes to depose CaoCao had been discovered. CaoCao had the participants and their families executed, including the Emperor’s pregnant concubine, who happens to be the niece of one of the plotters.
By means of a ruse, Liu Bei had managed to snatch XuZhou from CaoCao’s control, while CaoCao remained in the Capital. Having eliminated the internal threat by the Emperor to depose CaoCao, CaoCao went on to defeat Liu Bei, and regained XuZhou, and XiaoPei. Zhang Fei fled in defeat, while Liu Bei sought the protection of Yuan Shao.
Guan Yu remained in Xia Bei 下邳 looking after Liu Bei’s two wives.
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Post by chefying on Apr 17, 2015 16:18:41 GMT
In the 2010 Mainland China production of the TV series Romance of the Three Kingdoms, there was a scene where CaoCao's son asked CaoCao why he was not really attacking XuZhou. This scene was not in the book - CaoCao sent two generals to lay siege on Liu Bei in XuZhou. Subsequently, when CaoCao came to confront Liu Bei, Liu Bei was in XiaoPei, not Xuzhou as the clip said. The writers of the TV series took a lot of liberties with the story. In any case, the clip is interesting in terms of military strategy.
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Post by chefying on May 5, 2015 15:20:20 GMT
The story continues on to Chapter 25 - it is a bit long, so I will break it into two posts. Chapter 25 At the beginning of this chapter, Sun Ce had retired back to the Southland after the Emperor bestowed Sun Ce with the title Marquis of Wu. Yuan Shu and Gongsun Zan had died and so has Lv Bu. This leaves Liu Bei and Yuan Shao as the strongest of CaoCao’s threats close to home. Liu Bei had been proclaimed Imperial Uncle, and a plot by the Emperor to rally the dukes to depose CaoCao had been discovered. CaoCao had the participants and their families executed, including the Emperor’s pregnant concubine, who happens to be the niece of one of the plotters. Having eliminated the internal threat by the Emperor to depose CaoCao, CaoCao managed to regained XuZhou 徐州 which Liu Bei had snatched from CaoCao. Having lost XuZhou, Zhang Fei fled in defeat, while Liu Bei sought the protection of Yuan Shao. Guan Yu remained in Xia Bei 下邳 looking after Liu Bei’s two wives. And so, on with the story. Cao Cao had always admired Guan Yu, and very much prefers Guan Yu to go over to Cao Cao’s camp. Cao Cao also knows that Guan Yu would never yield to force; Guan Yu was a person who would rather die than be forced to join Cao Cao’s camp. A plot was hatched. Guan Yu had to be lured out of Xia Bei 下邳, and a joint attack from inside and outside will lead to the collapse of Xia Bei 下邳. And so it was that some of Liu Bei’s captured soldiers were convinced to “flee” back to Xia Bei for refuge. Cao Cao then sent troops to challenge and attack Xia Bei. Guan Yu emerged with some of his army and led charge. Cao Cao’s troops feigned defeat and retreated. Guan Yu pressed on with his “victory” and was lured some 20 miles away from his Xia Bei stronghold right into an ambush. Guan Yu tried to turn back, only to see flames from the direction of his Xia Bei, and knew that Xia Bei was lost. In actual fact, the former soldiers of Liu Bei who had to “flee” back to Xia Bei had opened the city gates, allowing Cao Cao’s army to enter, and lad lit fires to make it appear to Guan Yu that Xia Bei was in total ruins. All around, Guan Yu and the remnants of his troops were trapped in a small hill, surrounded by Cao Cao’s soldiers. Cao Cao then sent a friend of Guan Yu’s to convince Guan Yu to surrender. Guan Yu, of course, would rather die. So the friend changed tactics. He reminded Guan Yu that it was his duty to look after Liu Bei’s wives. What would happen to the womenfolk should Guan Yu die? Also, Liu Bei’s whereabouts was unknown. Had Guan Yu died, how would Liu Bei take the news? Thus convinced, Guan Yu laid down three conditions:- 1) Guan Yu would surrender not to Cao Cao, but to the Han Emperor. 2) Liu Bei’s wives must be left alone 3) Guan Yu must be allowed to leave when Liu Bei’s whereabouts is known Cao Cao accepted the first two conditions because i) Cao Cao is practically the throne, surrendering to the Emperor and surrendering to Cao Cao is pretty much the same thing. ii) Cao Cao has access to plenty of women, Liu Bei’s wives were of no interest to him It was the third condition that Cao Cao had a bit of trouble with. In the end, Cao Cao accepted it because so long Liu Bei’s location is unknown, Cao Cao has use of Guan Yu, and has time to convince Guan Yu to come to his side. This is the Mainland China 2010 Romance of the Three Kingdoms depiction of this event. I thought it was well done.
With that, Guan Yu surrendered to the Han Emperor via Cao Cao, and all parties started to head towards the capital. Along the way, at a way station, they had to spend a night. Guan Yu was allocated a tent with Liu Bei’s two wives as it was Guan Yu’s duty to guard the womenfolk. However, since women should not be in the company of men without a chaperone, Guan Yu spent the whole night outside the tent with a candle, reading a book. This episode is often recreated with only the portrayal of Guan Yu reading a book at night, as depicted by this Taiwan stamp. |
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Post by chefying on May 7, 2015 16:29:59 GMT
Upon reaching the Capital, Cao Cao lavished Guan Yu with women, good food, and gold and silver. The women Cao Cao sent were instructed to wait upon Liu Bei’s two wives. The food was in the form of banquets, every three days there was a minor banquet while every five days a major banquet was held. As for the gold and silver, Guan Yu merely used them for the upkeep of his sisters in law, and the rest were kept in the Treasury. To this day, the phrase 三日一小宴，五日一大宴，上马一提金，下马一提银 is used to describe someone who is lavishly treated. I do not believe this phrase came from the book though. For the convenience of those who do not read Chinese, this is what it meant:- 三日一小宴，minor banquet every three days 五日一大宴，major banquet every five days 上马一提金，gifted gold upon mounting the horse, 下马一提银 gifted silver upon alighting from the horse. Cao Cao did give something to Guan Yu that Guan Yu gladly accepted – the horse named Red Hare, formerly owned by Lv Bu. This horse was famous for being swift on its feet, hence the name Hare, and when it sweated, its sweat had a reddish tinge – hence the name, Red Hare. Why was it that of all the gifts lavished upon him, Guan Yu gladly accepted a horse? This was because it would facilitate Guan Yu rejoining his sworn brother when the time comes. At this point in time Yuan Shao thought of attacking Cao Cao. He debated with his advisors and finally asked Liu Bei of his opinion. Liu Bei asserted that Cao Cao is a rebel, and has to be eliminated. With that, Yuan Shao decided to launch at attack against Cao Cao. When this news reached Cao Cao, he readied his army. Guan Yu offered his services, but Cao Cao declined. And thus Cao Cao set his army against Yuan Shao. Yuan Shao sent out his number one General, Yan Liang, who roundly defeated Cao Cao’s generals, one after another. Things did not fare well for Cao Cao. Cao Cao’s advisor suggested bringing up Guan Yu, but Cao Cao was not thus inclined, fearing that, Guan Yu, having defeated Yuan Shao’s general, would leave Cao Cao’s service. To this, Cao Cao’s advisor said, “Chances are that Liu Bei is under Yuan Shao’s protection. If Guan Yu kills Yuan Shao’s #1 general, Yuan Shao would be furious, and would blame Liu Bei for collaborating with Guan Yu – and thus Cao Cao. Yuan Shao would then behead Liu Bei. If Liu Bei dies, Guan Yu would have no one to serve but Cao Cao!” So, devious as the plot was, Guan Yu was summoned to the battlefield. The 2010 Mainland China Romance of the Three Kingdoms portrayed this scene as so:
In a flash, Guan Yu, on his Red Hare horse and brandishing his Dragon Blade, rode out to the battlefield and engaged Yuan Shao’s #1 general. After a few bouts, Guan Yu killed Yuan Shao’s #1 general and presented that general’s head to a delighted Cao Cao. On Yuan Shao’s side, Yuan Shao was furious that his #1 general had been killed. Finding out it was Guan Yu who did it, Yuan Shao, as predicted, blamed Liu Bei and demanded that Liu Bei be executed. Thus ends Chapter 25 |
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Post by chefying on May 7, 2015 16:42:13 GMT
This is a clip of a famous and entertaining tutor in Taiwan describing the events more or less covered in Chapter 25. Since he is from Taiwan, some of what he said was in a Taiwan context, and he also speaks some Taiwanese/Fujian dialect.
I found him very entertaining. Very much better than some of the history teachers I had in school. |
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Post by chefying on May 7, 2015 16:59:24 GMT
This is another clip of the same tutor, explaining the basis of the decline in Chinese dynasties. It is in Chinese, and Taiwanese.
I think it is worthwhile translating/paraphrasing some of the things he said. He started by saying, "I am not teaching you history, I am teaching you logic and human nature, because history is a record of human nature." He said everything starts from the Emperor dying young. His successor would be an underaged Emperor, who, by human nature, is more inclined to playing than the governance of a country. And being young, he would turn to someone he trusts for advise when he has to make a decision. The person he trusts most would be his mother. In those days women are not that well educated, so the mother would turn to someone she trusts - her father and siblings. Invariably and inevitably, the court/country would be filled with people from the young Emperor's mother side of the family. They would control the military and the court. Meanwhile, the young Emperor would grow up in the company of the court ladies/concubines and the eunuchs. Under this environment, the young Emperor would most likely to grow up into a useless Emperor, relying very much on the eunuch, and spending his time with the court women. This lifestyle would most likely lead the Emperor to an early grave, and his successor would be his young prince. This young prince, human nature, is more inclined to playing than the governance of a country. And being young, he would turn to someone he trusts for advise when he has to make a decision.... and the cycle continues. |
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Post by Admin on May 8, 2015 2:13:00 GMT
chefying : thanks a lot. It's a very good summary, and also a good lesson from ROTK. The logic was accurate, but apparently that's not always the case. Qian Long was just 13 years old when he succeed his father, same case with Qin Shihuangdi. Both of them somehow are among the list of the most capable emperors in China. Therefore, the logic was right, but not absolutely correct. In the end, it's the child emperors' personality and his capabilities which determine whether he would be capable emperors or not.
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Post by chefying on Aug 11, 2015 14:16:58 GMT
chefying : thanks a lot. It's a very good summary, and also a good lesson from ROTK. The logic was accurate, but apparently that's not always the case. Qian Long was just 13 years old when he succeed his father, same case with Qin Shihuangdi. Both of them somehow are among the list of the most capable emperors in China. Therefore, the logic was right, but not absolutely correct. In the end, it's the child emperors' personality and his capabilities which determine whether he would be capable emperors or not. I suppose in both these examples, the cycle had not become that destructive yet.  |
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