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Post by machete on Jul 11, 2022 14:38:48 GMT
The Count of Monte Cristo seems to have influence far and wide. Jin Yong was said to have been influenced by Alexander Dumas when he wrote A Deadly Secret, (I was told in this forum that) Gu Long's God of Sabre story, when written by a ghostwriter ripped off the The Count of Monte Cristo. And many movies around the world, including a telenovela have been influenced by it. There's usually a story about a wronged individual who ends up in prison, and meets someone with a powerful secret which ends up benefiting the wronged individual. Either that or the wronged individual escapes by himself and exacts revenge.
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Post by kyc on Jul 11, 2022 14:59:15 GMT
Alexandre Dumas pere was Jin Yong's favorite non-Chinese writer. The Count of Monte Cristo is a world classic, but it's a long book, most translations are abridged.
The main difference between Liancheng Jue and Monte Cristo is that the Count is more vindictive than Di Yun and actively seeks to punish those involved in framing him. He's also very rich after unearthing a hidden treasure, unlike Di Yun. The first half is similar but the second half not so much, especially no girl like Shui Sheng appears. The Count finds someone but she's far more voluptuous than Miss Shui.
I think it has also been adapted into a HK TV series starring Adam Cheng if I'm not wrong--maybe even more than one adaptation in the Chinese speaking world.
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Post by Admin on Jul 15, 2022 7:51:36 GMT
Not only it influenced JY, but also many other writers in China. For example : Nirvana in Fire - the story is heavily influenced by this theme.
Just fyi, in China, almost all of people who went to high school read or at least know about Count of Monte Cristo. They translated the book back in 70s, and until now people are crazy about it. This past few years, some high school students no longer mentioned Count of Monte Cristo as part of classical books they have to read, but there will be an adaptation of musical Count of Monte Cristo in the end of 2022, and now the book is reprinted and sold again.
I read the book, and I find it interesting, since I read the Oxford translation edition. But even it's in English, there are so many part still have French words in it. The Chinese translation on the other hand, is full in Chinese. For example, for the first time in my life, I become aware, that Monte Cristo means Mount of Christ. In Chinese translation, they literally translated it as 基督山伯爵 The Count of Mount of Christ. And somehow after knowing the meaning, I become to appreciate more of the story, as the count - he's really playing God in repaying the good deeds and bad deeds. And I kind of see the paradox of Christ (who forgave his enemies) and the count who took revenge on everyone who mistreated him. I ask my Chinese friends how and why they like Monte Cristo so much, and they all said that because the theme is about punishing evil and compensating the good deeds, that's they theme that the Chinese people like. And many schools had this book as classical books that they had to read.
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Post by kyc on Jul 15, 2022 9:16:57 GMT
Not only it influenced JY, but also many other writers in China. For example : Nirvana in Fire - the story is heavily influenced by this theme. Just fyi, in China, almost all of people who went to high school read or at least know about Count of Monte Cristo. They translated the book back in 70s, and until now people are crazy about it. This past few years, some high school students no longer mentioned Count of Monte Cristo as part of classical books they have to read, but there will be an adaptation of musical Count of Monte Cristo in the end of 2022, and now the book is reprinted and sold again. I read the book, and I find it interesting, since I read the Oxford translation edition. But even it's in English, there are so many part still have French words in it. The Chinese translation on the other hand, is full in Chinese. For example, for the first time in my life, I become aware, that Monte Cristo means Mount of Christ. In Chinese translation, they literally translated it as 基督山伯爵 The Count of Mount of Christ. And somehow after knowing the meaning, I become to appreciate more of the story, as the count - he's really playing God in repaying the good deeds and bad deeds. And I kind of see the paradox of Christ (who forgave his enemies) and the count who took revenge on everyone who mistreated him. I ask my Chinese friends how and why they like Monte Cristo so much, and they all said that because the theme is about punishing evil and compensating the good deeds, that's they theme that the Chinese people like. And many schools had this book as classical books that they had to read. Admin made a few interesting points. The Oxford edition is slightly abridged, but the Penguin translation is complete. In China, most of the translations, I think, are complete. The Count of Monte Cristo wasn't just popular among the Chinese in the 1970s, it became popular in the early Republican era after it was translated as 基度山恩仇記. That translation later went through reprints in HK and Taiwan. Mainland China rediscovered the book in the 1970s after the Cultural Revolution, when they started publishing their own translations titled 基督山伯爵--a more literal title. I mentioned the old translated title because it brings up a theme mentioned by Admin. Towards the end, the book is really exploring the theme of forgiveness and playing God--whether the Count is playing God too much, and how much is too much. Of course, most of us won't feel pity when he bankrupts the wicked guys one after another. But there comes a time when one of the bad guys points a revolver at his own head (whether he shoots himself I can't remember. I read the book a long time ago) and the Count's actions actually implicate innocent people. So the comparison of the Count with Christ is a good point, especially since Monte Cristo probably refers to Christ on the Mount of Olives just before his arrest. The fact the Count actually decides to end his revenge mission, feeling he has done enough, actually vindicates him largely in my mind. When he was punishing evil, Dumas paints his actions as half-corrupting, making him something like a half-devil. The Count's final redemption comes only when he ends his revenge mission and leaves with his new beloved. You cannot live in hatred all the time. The novel is as much about forgiveness as revenge. When JY was asked to compare himself with Dumas, he said something like, "I think Dumas's best novels are better than my best, but he wrote too much. Some of his works are of poor quality, pulling his overall standard down." You can actually see JY asking complex questions in a novel like DGSD, probably influenced by writers like Dumas--one great novelist influenced by another.
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Post by galvatron prime on Jul 15, 2022 11:51:25 GMT
The Count of Monte Cristo seems to have influence far and wide. Jin Yong was said to have been influenced by Alexander Dumas when he wrote A Deadly Secret, (I was told in this forum that) Gu Long's God of Sabre story, when written by a ghostwriter ripped off the The Count of Monte Cristo. And many movies around the world, including a telenovela have been influenced by it. There's usually a story about a wronged individual who ends up in prison, and meets someone with a powerful secret which ends up benefiting the wronged individual. Either that or the wronged individual escapes by himself and exacts revenge. Can you tell me What is Count If Monte Cristo about ,never heard before ? Admin kyc
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Post by kyc on Jul 15, 2022 14:19:01 GMT
The Count of Monte Cristo seems to have influence far and wide. Jin Yong was said to have been influenced by Alexander Dumas when he wrote A Deadly Secret, (I was told in this forum that) Gu Long's God of Sabre story, when written by a ghostwriter ripped off the The Count of Monte Cristo. And many movies around the world, including a telenovela have been influenced by it. There's usually a story about a wronged individual who ends up in prison, and meets someone with a powerful secret which ends up benefiting the wronged individual. Either that or the wronged individual escapes by himself and exacts revenge. Can you tell me What is Count If Monte Cristo about ,never heard before ? Admin kycThe Count of Monte Cristo is a novel by French novelist Alexandre Dumas, who was one of JY's favorite novelists. The story is very long and quite like Liancheng Jue. A young sailor is framed for committing a crime he did not. The conspirators throw him into prison, where he is kept for many years. The man who instigated this marries the sailor's fiancee. When in prison he meets an old Jesuit priest, who teaches him a lot of things and a few languages. The priest also tells him of a great treasure hidden on an island. After the priest dies, the sailor makes a jailbreak, then swims to the island and unearths the treasure. With the treasure he transforms himself into the fabulously rich Count of Monte Cristo. Thanks to the education he had in prison, he plays this role very well. Then he starts his revenge mission, to bankrupt or drive to death those who framed him. Most of them are now bankers. He also rewards those who once helped him like Santa Claus. As for the ending... you have to read the book yourself. 🙂
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Post by kyc on Jul 15, 2022 14:33:37 GMT
Actually JY borrowed more from Dumas... Remember You Tanzhi and his iron helmet? Dumas wrote "The Man in the Iron Mask".
Maybe JY borrowed even more that I'm unaware of.
But strictly speaking JY did not steal from Dumas because Dumas paid ghostwriters to think of the main plots of his novels. 😁
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 15, 2022 16:13:54 GMT
SPOILER ALERT FOR PLOT!!! kyc IIRC, Dantes abandoned his plans for revenge when there was an unintended victim: the young son of the judge, whose mother he forced to take poison for her crimes against the step-daughter. but she couldn't bear to leave her son motherless and poisoned him as well. and then the judge went insane upon discovering the dead son.
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Post by kyc on Jul 16, 2022 7:40:45 GMT
SPOILER ALERT FOR PLOT!!! kyc IIRC, Dantes abandoned his plans for revenge when there was an unintended victim: the young son of the judge, whose mother he forced to take poison for her crimes against the step-daughter. but she couldn't bear to leave her son motherless and poisoned him as well. and then the judge went insane upon discovering the dead son. You must be right. I cannot remember the minute details of the plot now; I read it many years back, after which I read other novels (including 30+ wuxia novels). The Wikipedia plot summary is so long, I don't want to read it. "Forgiveness" is indeed a major theme of the novel. As Wikipedia puts it, it is "an adventure story primarily concerned with themes of hope, justice, vengeance, mercy, and forgiveness." Did the Count feel guilty about making Mercedes a widow, and did his new beloved talk to him about mercy and forgiveness? I don't quite remember now. For those who want to compare the different Chinese translations of the novel, here is a comparative essay written by a HK academic. It is in Traditional Chinese. You can easily find a website to transcode it into Simplified Chinese if you prefer that format. www.huayuqiao.org/LLM/LLM-24/LLM2403.htm
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Post by kyc on Jul 16, 2022 8:20:30 GMT
I like this book so much, I'm recommending translations:
In English, the translation by Robin Buss (Penguin Classics) is the only complete version in print. It was done in the 1990s, so it does not have archaic language. This is the version I read. I don't remember anything to fault, but I do not read French.
In Chinese:
Disclaimer: I have not read any of these translations.
蔣學模《基度山恩仇記》(1946) / 蒋学模《基度山伯爵》(reprinted 1978) - This is the first popular version of the novel, slightly abridged and based on an English text. Hu Shih praised it for being lively. The 1978 reprint is in Simplified Chinese, with the title changed to 基度山伯爵. The later reprint has been corrected by editors using the French text.
林維堂《基度山恩仇記》(1963) - Published in Taiwan. This is an interesting version as it is the first translated from the French. It seems to be complete.
The rest are published by Mainland China:
韩沪麟、周克希合译《基督山伯爵》,上海译文出版社 - Han Hulin translated the first half, Zhou Kexi translated the second half.
周克希《基督山伯爵》,华东师范大学 / 译林出版社 - Zhou Kexi liked the book so much, he then translated the entire novel.
郑克鲁《基度山恩仇记》- Zheng Kelu was a famous translator of French literature. This version is also published in Taiwan.
李玉民, 陈筱卿合译《基督山伯爵》
Other Dumas books:
Lawrence Ellsworth, a Dumas devotee, has translated a number of Dumas's novels into English. I prefer his Three Musketeers to that by Richard Pevear. He is still translating Dumas novels.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 16, 2022 14:33:42 GMT
SPOILER ALERT FOR PLOT!!! kyc IIRC, Dantes abandoned his plans for revenge when there was an unintended victim: the young son of the judge, whose mother he forced to take poison for her crimes against the step-daughter. but she couldn't bear to leave her son motherless and poisoned him as well. and then the judge went insane upon discovering the dead son. You must be right. I cannot remember the minute details of the plot now; I read it many years back, after which I read other novels (including 30+ wuxia novels). The Wikipedia plot summary is so long, I don't want to read it. "Forgiveness" is indeed a major theme of the novel. As Wikipedia puts it, it is "an adventure story primarily concerned with themes of hope, justice, vengeance, mercy, and forgiveness." Did the Count feel guilty about making Mercedes a widow, and did his new beloved talk to him about mercy and forgiveness? I don't quite remember now. For those who want to compare the different Chinese translations of the novel, here is a comparative essay written by a HK academic. It is in Traditional Chinese. You can easily find a website to transcode it into Simplified Chinese if you prefer that format. www.huayuqiao.org/LLM/LLM-24/LLM2403.htmyes, he decided that literally sailing off into the sunset with mercedes was for the best.
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Post by kyc on Jul 19, 2022 14:12:52 GMT
BTW, the TVB series I was talking about was The Great Vendetta (大報復), released in 1977 and starring Adam Cheng, Gigi Wong, Angie Chiu, and Damien Lau. Adam Cheng sang the main theme song.
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Post by Admin on Jul 22, 2022 8:17:14 GMT
SPOILER ALERT FOR PLOT!!! kyc IIRC, Dantes abandoned his plans for revenge when there was an unintended victim: the young son of the judge, whose mother he forced to take poison for her crimes against the step-daughter. but she couldn't bear to leave her son motherless and poisoned him as well. and then the judge went insane upon discovering the dead son. Ah...the novel is too long and I guess I missed this part.
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Post by kyc on Jul 24, 2022 6:59:39 GMT
yes, he decided that literally sailing off into the sunset with mercedes was for the best. Yes, but he sails off with Haydée not Mercedes in the end. Mercedes I think still remains devoted to her husband and son.
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Post by siuyiu on Jul 24, 2022 19:48:53 GMT
yes, he decided that literally sailing off into the sunset with mercedes was for the best. Yes, but he sails off with Haydée not Mercedes in the end. Mercedes I think still remains devoted to her husband and son. no, mercedes is disgusted with her husband and she and their son abandon him.
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