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Post by siuyiu on Jun 22, 2015 20:47:50 GMT
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Post by reinafu on Jun 23, 2015 6:12:59 GMT
Thanks for the comments.
I wonder if L'épée céleste et le sabre du dragon is a translation of Heaven sword and dragon sabre ? If so, how Zhang Wuji and the other are related to the Condor heroes' heroes ?
I had noticed in some of your posts that you sometimes used some French words or expressions, so, I thought that maybe you were French or at least, you had learnt this language...
La jeunesse du héros chasseur d'aigles and Le retour du héros chasseur d'aigles are mentioned in Jin Yong's book as being his writing. I'll check my books in order to verify what is exactly mentioned and I'll let you know.
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Post by reinafu on Jun 23, 2015 6:16:17 GMT
I just saw your last post. Yes, I saw Investiture des Dieux, but it seems to be a children book and I found it in English on the site Purple culture and it seems to be complete, so, maybe I'll buy this one. The site Purple culture seems to have a lot of good Classics Litterature and it has even The water margin inf both Chinese-Spanish language !
By the wway, I forgot to mention that I also have Water margin in French, but I'm not sure that it's complete...
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Post by reinafu on Jun 23, 2015 13:51:50 GMT
It seem that I made a mistake regarding Jin Yong's books. Here is what is written at the end of volume 2 of La légende du héros chasseur d'aigles : " La saga de nos héros Guo Jung and Huang Rong continue, notamment dans le roman de Jin Yong intitulé Les amants de l'aigle divin, consacré pour partie aux aventures de lerus enfants et de Yang Guo, fils de Yang Kang et de Mu Nianci. On peut trouver des informations sur ce livre et sur d'autres oeuvres de Jin Yong sur le site : www.heroschasseurdaigles.com " (If you want a translation of what is written, let me know). I just tried the link, but it seems that it leads nowhere...The book was released in 2004,so, maybe the link is dead. And here's a list of Jin Yong's titles mentioned at the end of the book ; they are all French titles, but I don't remember to have ever seen one of them on sale : L'épée de jade et de sang Le recueil sentimental du livre et de l'épée Could it be Book and sword ? La légende du héros chasseur d'aigles Le renard volant de la montagne enneigée I guess that it's Fox volant of Snowy mountain, right ? Les amants de l'aigle divin From what I just mentioned above, it might be the one I bought under the title Le chasseur et l'aigle mythique, right ? Le sabre des canards mandarins Nouvelle histoire du renard volant La saga des preux chevaliers Histoire des deux épées Les huit divinités I guess that it's The eight immortals, right ? L'avant-légende du héros chasseur d'aigles That's the one I was referring to as La jeunesse du héros chasseur d'aigles ; what could it be ? Le cerf et le chaudron I guess that it's The deer and the cauldron aka Duke of Mount Deer, right ? Rire orgueilleux sur les fleuves et les lacs If you have any idea of the English titles for the ones for which I didn't mention any remark, it will be welcome. Also, regarding Chu Liu Xiang, is the third title La grive aux yeux sourcils peints the same as the one mentioned as Huameiniao aka The thrush in the following page : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_Liuxiang ? As it has been released a few months ago, I still haven't had time to read it. Think that it took me years to gather all three books ; I bought the first around 2007 and I had to wait 2014 fo buy the third one !! And regarding Three kingdoms, I think that the first books I found were released at the same time the movie came on screens (I'm talking about the movie with Takeshi Kaneshiro) and if you carefully looked at the description on the site You Feng, the last volume came only in January 2015 !! It seems that Chinese litterature is very slow to come to French people. I think that French people isn't prepared to wuxiapian and don't show enough interest in this genre and it might be an explanation for such few titles released in French language. |
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Post by reinafu on Jun 23, 2015 13:57:12 GMT
Another question regarding Chu Liu Xiang : from what I saw in the series and what I remember to have read in the first books (but I read them since a long while, so, I may be mistaken), I had understood that Chu Liu Xiang was more or less in love with Su Rong Rong, though none of them want to admit it, so, who is this girl Zhang Jiejie who is mentioned in the above link as Chu Liu Xiang's wife ?
Also, does Rong Rong die in the books ?
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 23, 2015 16:50:29 GMT
reinafu lots of things on your list that need answering! i'll try my best!  first off, here's the french wiki entry for JY--i think that can help! fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Yongalso, i think the translations of titles will depend on the translator. so, "official" translations may use one title, but variations will exist because even in english, the books have different names depending on whether you use an official translation or the movie/tv series titles. i know it's confusing. i'm canadian, so i was required to learn a bit of french in school. sadly, i didn't retain too much. but apparently enough to get by.  so, for the titles (and with help from the often-mistranslated wiki page): "L'épée de jade et de sang" is probably Sword Stained with Royal Blood, Bi Xue Jian (L’Épée tachée de sang royal on wiki) "Le recueil sentimental du livre et de l'épée" is indeed Book & Sword (Le Livre et l’épée on wiki) "Le renard volant de la montagne enneigée" is indeed Fox Volant (Le Renard de la montagne des neiges on wiki) "Nouvelle histoire du renard volant" is Other Tales of the Fox Volant, Young Flying Fox, and other alternate titles of the same book (and yes, this is a collection of stories about characters featured in Fox Volant) i think "La légende du héros chasseur d'aigles", "L'avant-légende du héros chasseur d'aigles", and "La jeunesse du héros chasseur d'aigles" are alternate titles of the same work, She Diao Ying Xiong Zhuan, because their translations are: legend of the eagle hunter heroes, first legend/prequel of the eagle hunter heroes, and youth of the eagle hunter heroes. most people know the second book in the trilogy, Shen Diao Xia Lu, as ROCH (return of the condor hero), despite this being an incorrect translation of the chinese title; it's the english title for the TVB series. so, if you think of the trilogy, the alternate french titles make a bit more sense. "Les amants de l'aigle divin" and "Le chasseur et l'aigle mythique" are alternate titles of ROCH (Le Retour du héros chasseur d’aigles on wiki--again, this is the translation of ROCH and isn't the right translation of the original title, as mentioned above) "Le sabre des canards mandarins" is Blade-dance of the Two Lovers, according to wiki, AKA Mandarin Duck Sabres, one of the novellas and rarely adapted (La Danse de l’épée on wiki) "Les huit divinités" is a misleading translation of DGSD/Tian Long Ba Bu (the eight immortals is a chinese folklore story) "Le cerf et le chaudron" is indeed DoMD AKA the deer and the cauldron "Rire orgueilleux sur les fleuves et les lacs" is Xiao Au Jianghu (Le Vagabond au sourire fier on wiki--this title is once again based on TVB's translation) i'm not sure about "La saga des preux chevaliers" and "Histoire des deux épées", but if i had to guess, "preux chevaliers" is Xia Ke Xing (Le Redresseur de torts on wiki) and "deux epees" is Deadly Secret (not at all the translation of the chinese title of Lian Cheng Jue)
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 23, 2015 17:02:15 GMT
I wonder if L'épée céleste et le sabre du dragon is a translation of Heaven sword and dragon sabre ? If so, how Zhang Wuji and the other are related to the Condor heroes' heroes ? correct! HSDS is set about 100 years after ROCH. the only 3 characters that are related to LOCH/ROCH are guo xiang (cameo appearance at the beginning and often not mentioned at all in the adaptations), zhang sanfeng (who is the young monk who befriends guo xiang at the end of ROCH and also a non-appearance in the adaptations), and the yellow lady who shows up during the tense scene where ZWJ is getting into deep trouble with all the other sects for trying to rescue his adoptive father Xie Xun; she is presumably the descendent (great-granddaughter, i think) of YG & XLN because she reveals she's from the Ancient Tomb sect. zhang sanfeng is ZWJ's shigong, his father's shifu/master. of the three books in the trilogy, HSDS is the least related, story-wise, to the other two. and historically, LOCH/ROCH are set in the latter years of the Song dynasty while HSDS is set in the latter years of the Yuan; so, they bookend the Mongol takeover of China. |
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 23, 2015 17:14:06 GMT
Also, regarding Chu Liu Xiang, is the third title La grive aux yeux sourcils peints the same as the one mentioned as Huameiniao aka The thrush in the following page : Another question regarding Chu Liu Xiang : from what I saw in the series and what I remember to have read in the first books (but I read them since a long while, so, I may be mistaken), I had understood that Chu Liu Xiang was more or less in love with Su Rong Rong, though none of them want to admit it, so, who is this girl Zhang Jiejie who is mentioned in the above link as Chu Liu Xiang's wife ? Also, does Rong Rong die in the books ? to first respond to your comment that the french don't seem interested in wuxia, hence the lack of translations: it's the same with the english-speaking world. only 3 (?) of JY's novels have officially been translated. there are a bunch of online fan translations, of course. and fan translations exist for a lot of other authors, but official translations are rare. even despite movies like Crouching Tiger or Hero or Three Kingdoms, wuxia is not a well-known genre, so the lack of interest means publishers aren't going to risk paying for a translation to be done. the other problem is that translating any work into a different language is hard. trust me: my measly attempt at doing an english summary--not even a full translation--of PZXYL took forever! and i had to constantly go back and revise because i was writing chinglish most of the time! anyway, back ot CLX: you are correct that "la grive" is the same as "the thrush"/hua mei niao. alternate titles again. it is implied/known that SRR was in love with CLX but it's doubtful he returned her affections; he saw her (and the other two girls) as sisters. this is the reason why SRR eventually killed herself in the last book. i hope you're not disappointed with all the spoilers you've been reading! most of the CLX adaptations rarely include the last book, so few people know that SRR dies. and yes, CLX acquired a wife very briefly in the story Legend of the Peach Blossom. that was an odd story. |
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Post by reinafu on Jun 23, 2015 17:43:33 GMT
Thank you very much for all your informations.
In the TVB series, Su Rong Rong is killed while trying to save Chu Liu Xiang who is fighting with a former brother/disciple of the same master as him (played by Chen Hung Lieh), so, it seems that the series isn't faithful to the book, since you tell me that she commits suicide in the book.
I don't care spoilers ; the only thing that disappoints me is that I doubt that I'll be able to read the whole story one day. Fortunately, there are the series, even if I know that sometimes, series aren't totally faithful to the books. It's the same in France when movies are made from books, or when books are adaptations of successful movies.
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Post by reinafu on Jun 23, 2015 17:48:53 GMT
Is the character Zhang San Feng you're referring to the same as the master who is usually referred to as being the one who created Tai Chi ?
Also, thanks for the explanations regarding how Heaven sword and dragon sabre is related to The condor heroes.
If I'm not mistaken, it seems to me that I read somewhere that the TVB series Rage and passion was also related to The Condor heroes and explained the story of one of the masters who meets Guo Jing (I don't remember which one ; it seems to me that it's the one who fight in the inn with the other old masters, but I'm not sure and I forgot the names...)
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Post by siuyiu on Jun 23, 2015 22:37:45 GMT
reinafu well, SRR's death is by suicide according to my memory of the book. i could very well have misremembered. if i get a chance, i'll check! and yes, Zhang Sanfeng is the creator of tai chi.  rage and passion takes the character in LOCH/ROCH called wang chongyang and builds a story around him. there are some historical bits, since he's a historical figure, but as i understand it, they mostly base the "drama" of his life on the bits found in LOCH/ROCH.
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Post by reinafu on Jun 24, 2015 10:36:52 GMT
Regarding my collection, I also forgot yo mention that I have another Gu Long's book in French : Les quatre bandits du Huabei.
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Post by chongjasmine on Mar 8, 2020 1:48:39 GMT
My favourite hero is guo jing.
Favourite heroine is huang rong.
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Post by chongjasmine on May 8, 2022 12:03:20 GMT
I like Guo Jing best. Reason: He is upright and has a kind and good heart.
I like good people, generally.
Second favourite is Zhang Wu Ji. He is forgiving and very kind.
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